Mechanics for JJBA stands?

[farispie]

Hi, all, I am going to be running a JJBA pirate themed one-shot for my current group. We have been using Fate Core and its superhero supplement to run our long term campaign Jojo game, and we realized some things about the system kinda don't work well when emulating a JoJo game. In particular Fate Core has mechanics that force characters to deal with long term injuries or consequences, which is often not a concern in JoJo. We are gonna try to use OVA in a one-shot to see if it works better for our group.

Anyways, how would you go about ruling stand abilities? I think, at least personally, it makes sense to treat stand abilities as something part of the character rather than a separate companion ability. In particular, with the exception of some stands, most stands are connected to their user.

I love what I am seeing in the OVA system, but one thing I am not entirely sold on is how to allow the players to have the freedom to use their stands creatively on the fly. What I mean is during character creation, players can come up with a couple of "special attacks" so to speak with the perk/flaw system, but in JoJo often the characters just come up with creative ways to use their stands when the situation calls for it I am not sure how to make this work in OVA, in particular since it seems the players will have to make up a new attack and stat it out during play (which sounds like it will slow down the game). What would be the best way to deal with this in OVA?

For those of you not famililar with JJBA (JoJo's Bizzare Adventure), it is a long running manga series that is best known for three things :1) It's generation spanning story, in which each part of the story has its own atmosphere and setting 2) Bizzare and interesting events/characters and 3) Creative, tactical, and yes bizzare combat. In part 3, a concept known as stands were introduced. Stands are the spiritual manifestation of their users, and often they manifest as ghostly figures that stand behind their users. Non-stand users cannot see stands. Damage done to the stand is transferred to the user, and vice-versa. Of course there are exception to these rules, for example certain stands are bound to physical objects (allowing normal people to see them) or sometimes some stands actually harm their users. Hell there is one stand that only activates after its user's death . More importantly, stands grant their users unique abilities. These abilities range from conventional (ie: controlling flames) to weird (ie: A stand who's ability allows the user to read people in the form of books and read their memories. The user can write on these books to imprint a command in the target or can rip off pages of the book to make the target lose weight) to just outright crazy (one stand allows it user to speed up time to the point of resetting the universe).

What makes JoJo stand out in terms of combat a ) is that there is alot more emphasis on not "what is your ability", but rather HOW you use your ability. Alot of seemingly weak powers have trumped over seemingly powerful abilities because their users were creative with their powers. b) Furthermore, fights are often filled with a sense of mystery as the users try to figure out the extent of each other's abilities and trying to manipulate each other's psyche to win the battle

So I was wondering if really OVA can implement the above .

[Tabulation]

You tried to use Fate as a system for a JJBA game? How it is? Apart from the issue you bough up.
I am interested.

[Malancthon]

I love what I am seeing in the OVA system, but one thing I am not entirely sold on is how to allow the players to have the freedom to use their stands creatively on the fly. What I mean is during character creation, players can come up with a couple of "special attacks" so to speak with the perk/flaw system, but in JoJo often the characters just come up with creative ways to use their stands when the situation calls for it I am not sure how to make this work in OVA, in particular since it seems the players will have to make up a new attack and stat it out during play (which sounds like it will slow down the game). What would be the best way to deal with this in OVA?

Any player can create a new attack on the fly at any time. The Perks and Flaws are just there to give some more direction as to what the attack does or doesn't do, which is not limited to character creation. Players don't have to have attacks assigned at character creation, it's just a good idea to have a couple of attacks already statted up to give an idea of what type of combat the character can do as well as some already ready attacks for normal combat. But there is nothing, except plausibility, that stops a character from creating a new attack in the middle of a session or combat round.

I'm not familiar enough with JJBA to be able to give you pointers, but I do think you should be able to implement the ideas easily enough with OVA.

[farispie]

I love what I am seeing in the OVA system, but one thing I am not entirely sold on is how to allow the players to have the freedom to use their stands creatively on the fly. What I mean is during character creation, players can come up with a couple of "special attacks" so to speak with the perk/flaw system, but in JoJo often the characters just come up with creative ways to use their stands when the situation calls for it I am not sure how to make this work in OVA, in particular since it seems the players will have to make up a new attack and stat it out during play (which sounds like it will slow down the game). What would be the best way to deal with this in OVA?

Any player can create a new attack on the fly at any time. The Perks and Flaws are just there to give some more direction as to what the attack does or doesn't do, which is not limited to character creation. Players don't have to have attacks assigned at character creation, it's just a good idea to have a couple of attacks already statted up to give an idea of what type of combat the character can do as well as some already ready attacks for normal combat. But there is nothing, except plausibility, that stops a character from creating a new attack in the middle of a session or combat round.

I'm not familiar enough with JJBA to be able to give you pointers, but I do think you should be able to implement the ideas easily enough with OVA.

I understand that much, I just think that when players do this, they'll have to take time to look through the book, find the relevant perks/flaws, etc, and I feel like mid-session, that will slow the game down? As opposed to say Fate where one can roll a create an advantage roll then and there and fluff it however you want.

I guess I am having trouble figuring out what would a player roll when trying to do something weird or creative with their stand?

[farispie]

You tried to use Fate as a system for a JJBA game? How it is? Apart from the issue you bough up.
I am interested.

The "create an advantage" mechanic was great for emulating JoJo characters doing novel or out there things with their stands. However my players were not fond of the compel mechanics because they felt that roleplaying in character should be a narrative boon, rather than a mechanical one.

[Sabersonic]

I think I understand Farispie's concern about players creating attack variations on the fly and I can't say I blame him/her for such a concern. If I recall Clay's stance on the matter, 3-4 Attack Variations are well advised for most character builds and that Attack Variations made on the fly should be both thematically relevant to that character and that it should not take too much time on their creation. I believe a good minute should be more than enough to create an on-the-fly Attack Variation.

That being said, house ruling isn't that too bad of an alternative solution. For example, whenever the campaign session is convened, players aren't allowed to create new Attack Variations if it takes more than a minute in their creation. That being said, if the campaign session is adjourned or in recess, players are allowed to make as many such novel Attack Variations as they wish in anticipation for what may occur next in the campaign at either the end of the recess or when the players meet in the next session. A GM may or may not give clues as to what the next session will bring thematically, to build anticipation and excitement and perhaps a bit of strategic foresight for their individual characters that would either make their efforts fruitful or in vain.

Of course, that's just me if I'm faced with such a scenario.

[farispie]

I think I understand Farispie's concern about players creating attack variations on the fly and I can't say I blame him/her for such a concern. If I recall Clay's stance on the matter, 3-4 Attack Variations are well advised for most character builds and that Attack Variations made on the fly should be both thematically relevant to that character and that it should not take too much time on their creation. I believe a good minute should be more than enough to create an on-the-fly Attack Variation.

That being said, house ruling isn't that too bad of an alternative solution. For example, whenever the campaign session is convened, players aren't allowed to create new Attack Variations if it takes more than a minute in their creation. That being said, if the campaign session is adjourned or in recess, players are allowed to make as many such novel Attack Variations as they wish in anticipation for what may occur next in the campaign at either the end of the recess or when the players meet in the next session. A GM may or may not give clues as to what the next session will bring thematically, to build anticipation and excitement and perhaps a bit of strategic foresight for their individual characters that would either make their efforts fruitful or in vain.

Of course, that's just me if I'm faced with such a scenario.

This is reasonable, but the thing with JoJo in particular is often the characters do not know what the enemies stand abilities are. Part of the appeal is the characters tactically figuring out the limits of their enemies abilities and then defeating them. So I think it'd be difficult to come up with novel attacks in between sessions if they do not know immediately what the enemy can do . But I do like the one-minute rule, albeit I am not sure how fast my players can make attacks on the fly.

[Sabersonic]

Well the house rule was suggested to speed up gameplay for players who spend just a little too much time ad-hocking Attack Variations.

As for how fast players can make their own attack variations, well it gives a little incentive to at least experiment with designs and think on their feet. Giving a time-limit just heightened the dramatic tension and make the encounter all the more memorable.

[farispie]

Well the house rule was suggested to speed up gameplay for players who spend just a little too much time ad-hocking Attack Variations.

As for how fast players can make their own attack variations, well it gives a little incentive to at least experiment with designs and think on their feet. Giving a time-limit just heightened the dramatic tension and make the encounter all the more memorable.

Fair enough, but I also don't want to punish them for say coming up with a really cool idea narratively "Like, I want to do X with my stand", but not giving them enough time to figure out how to implement said idea mechanically. Which actually is my main concern with figuring out how to implement JoJo stands in OVA, esp.ones with weird abilities.

[Sabersonic]

Well the house rule was suggested to speed up gameplay for players who spend just a little too much time ad-hocking Attack Variations.

As for how fast players can make their own attack variations, well it gives a little incentive to at least experiment with designs and think on their feet. Giving a time-limit just heightened the dramatic tension and make the encounter all the more memorable.

Fair enough, but I also don't want to punish them for say coming up with a really cool idea narratively "Like, I want to do X with my stand", but not giving them enough time to figure out how to implement said idea mechanically.

I think it's less punishing them and more along the lines of "are you willing to wait for the other person to finish their Attack Variation to do your own turn?" Basically do onto others how you wish others to do unto you kind of deal. If they're willing to wait, allow that one player the necessary time. If not, concede with their wishes and let them argue about it with each other afterwards.

Then again, there isn't anything in the rules that said that you had to make an ad-hock Attack Variation from scratch each time, or even completely different from the previous ad-hock attempt. Heck, one could theoretically build up from the foundations of a previous ad-hock version to even speed it up.

[farispie]

Well the house rule was suggested to speed up gameplay for players who spend just a little too much time ad-hocking Attack Variations.

As for how fast players can make their own attack variations, well it gives a little incentive to at least experiment with designs and think on their feet. Giving a time-limit just heightened the dramatic tension and make the encounter all the more memorable.

Fair enough, but I also don't want to punish them for say coming up with a really cool idea narratively "Like, I want to do X with my stand", but not giving them enough time to figure out how to implement said idea mechanically.

I think it's less punishing them and more along the lines of "are you willing to wait for the other person to finish their Attack Variation to do your own turn?" Basically do onto others how you wish others to do unto you kind of deal. If they're willing to wait, allow that one player the necessary time. If not, concede with their wishes and let them argue about it with each other afterwards.

Then again, there isn't anything in the rules that said that you had to make an ad-hock Attack Variation from scratch each time, or even completely different from the previous ad-hock attempt. Heck, one could theoretically build up from the foundations of a previous ad-hock version to even speed it up.

I guess this is fair. I just didn't want mechanics to get in the way of what characters can do narratively, as long as what they are trying to do made sense.

[Sabersonic]

I guess this is fair. I just didn't want mechanics to get in the way of what characters can do narratively, as long as what they are trying to do made sense.

Hence the first half of the rules surrounding ad-hoc Attack Variation: It must make thematic sense for the character to do so.

[Malancthon]

Perks and Flaws are also optional.

You could just keep it as base Attack level and allow the players to describe what the attack is as they think it up, and improvise the effects as story-based effects. Mechanically, though, it's just plain Attack +3 (or whatever).

So even a crazy world stopping, reality hiccuping attack could only do x2 damage (if that character only has Attack +1) while a more simple focused punch would do x4 damage (if that character has Attack +3).