Clay wrote:Tenka wrote:If the discussion can avoid turning into a flame war, whose responsability I would rather not bear, I'm actually interested in discussing the subject, as Tri-Stat is my favorite generic system.
Sorry to step on toes, it was not my intention.
Good, because you missed them and I wouldn't want to think of you as clumsy enough to miss such a big target. I don't feel offended when some sinner
dares not to share my personal preferences, and I very much prefer an honest answer to the usual polite circumlocutions.
A
polite honest answer, which yours was. A
motivated polite honest answer, which yours is:
Clay wrote:I just find myself annoyed by a few key facets of BESM, mainly the fact that the basic "tri-stat system" is broken enough to warrant special attributes to fix them. (Want a Strong but slow/clumsy character? You have to make a character with high body, then purchase enough Flaws to negate a high Body's inherent dextrous competency...The facets of strong/tough and Fast/agile just should never be combined in my train of thought.)
There is a huge ongoing
Roll Over Mechanic thread on the GoO boards that proves that you're not alone to be bothered by that aspect of the system. It doesn't bother me because I accept the three stats as not being very important in themselves: Attributes and Defects are what makes a character.
Clay wrote:
There's also the fact that they added this to the Second Edition revised...
Paraphrasing, Basically new Trick Shots allowed you to take a penalty on your attack to give a penalty to your target's defense. It had like 3 levels, with the following effects. Attack +2, Opponent's Defense +2; Attack +4, Defense +4; Attack +6, Defense +6....
Sorry, but it just made me laugh. ^_^
I won't forgive you!
If only because there's no need. The same
Roll Over Mechanic thread I mentioned also tackles the "Trick Shot" issue. Many find, like you, that it is clumsy; some insist that a change to a roll-over mechanic for BESM would get rid of the problem. Personally, though I admit it looks like an add-on, I like the added level of choice: it allows a player, instead of just rolling the dice, to make a choice on the roll itself (a similar kind of choice as given by a D&D character with the "Power Attack" Feat). On the other hand, it has been stressed out that even that good point had its bad side, as it makes the player more conscious of the mechanics during play, thus favoring the "roll" aspect to the detriment of the "role" aspect.
Clay wrote:I think I gave the wrong impression here. Though you CAN make up your own descriptors, the book includes many, many built into the system, described in nature and game use. Notes are included throughout to help clarify their use as well.
Good. That's all a beginner really needs, and it also make it easier for an experienced player to design his own descriptors.
Clay wrote:And I won't claim that the Ricochet mechanics are unbreakable. In fact, it's very easy to abuse the rules if you're so inclined. I'm afraid if you want a system to babysit your munchkin players, OVA won't be for you. There are many good rulesystems that concentrate on good balance (D20 being among them).
d20 tried, but hardly succeeded, if you consider all the threads about the best and worst classes (Cleric being the usual winner, Bard the usual loser) and races (Dwarf being the usual winner, Half-Elf the usual loser). Also, there are all those Feat combos, that remind me of
Magic the Gathering. The fact that many supplements focus on new Feats and Prestige Classes also increase the MtG feel. It makes for easy sales, but certainly doesn't help with balance issues.
Clay wrote:Ricochet is meant to allow ultimate freedom
That would be no rules at all.
I've done that already, but only with players I knew well.
Clay wrote: in a hard to recreate genre. But this also means it's perfectly possible to buy only the "good" Abilities and clobber everyone else in the game.
I felt this was neccessary to recreate the dynamics of true to anime gameplay. It's made more obvious when you see licensed anime RPGs. The main cast is never built on the same number of points.
Yeah, but see, that's an aspect that I don't think translates well into a game. I agree that all those anime, even those that glorify team play and friendship, always focus on ONE character, that gets all the best parts and finishes all the big bosses (or equivalent challenges). Saint Seiya is a particularly annoying example. Or, more to the point: who wants to play Kuririn in DBZ when his friend gets to play Goku? (Me, but only because C18 is the only cute chick in the show.)
That's actually something I like in BESM: variable costs for Skills, so that Skills that are most valuable for the campaign are also the most expensive. It makes for more variety, as a player would otherwise shy from investing points in "origami" instead of "unnarmed attack" in a martial arts game.
Clay wrote:Of course, I have included a few optional rules to help curb rampant abuse, but the fact remains that it is breakable.
I refuse to play a game that is breakable. Except all RPGs.
Clay wrote:I checked it out as well, (thank you for the link, Mofarme!) and wasn't notably impressed. But it's hard to judge a system based on a slew of statistics. But yes, templates is an odd choice for a generic system. Templates are great for specific genres, but tend to be confusing and limiting for something so broad as anime. (Much why I was completely disgusted by BESM d20, even though a friend did all the new art).
BESM d20 was a clever marketing move, and GoO was right to make it. This said, I don't like the idea and don't even agree with how D&D classes have been deconstructed. For instance, a Wizard and a Sorcerer "pay" more points because there are more arcane spells than divine spells; only, it doesn't take into account the fact that a Cleric always has access to his whole spell list, while the Wizard has to find the spells and pay for them (at least to scribe them) and the Sorcerer will never know but a few.
As for Niko, I didn't like his latest covers for GoO, but I did like what I saw of his work for BESM d20. Overall. Or, to be more precise:
Niko Geyer art I really reeeally like:
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/keys.jpg
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/aqua.jpg
Niko Geyer art I really like:
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/besm_d ... rcerer.jpg
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/besm_techgenius.jpg
Niko Geyer art I like:
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/besm_student.jpg
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/besm_hotrod.jpg
Niko Geyer art I don't care for:
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/besm_mechapilot.jpg
http://www.nikogeyer.com/gallery/uresiad20.jpg
Clay wrote:Tenka wrote:... and a character sheet sample? Those always make for great teasers.
Though in the case of Random Anime, for me, it was more of a letdown, since that's how I learnt about the 8 basic attributes.
I would, but unfortunately, I feel it would give a bad impression of the game. Because there's no hardcoded stats, no derived statistics, or other extras of the sort, it looks AWFULLY barren.
Yeah, I figured that, but I thought about a
filled-up character sheet. A sample of an actual character.
Clay wrote:But it works exceptionally well in playtests, I just hope you can take my word on it till you can get a copy of the rules.
In 20004?