Wise Turtle Publishing

I use this thread as a kind of wrapper for all rule questions I have and didn't find any answers yet in other threads.

Okay, here I go with my first question, about Shadowman on p. 136. That dude has insanely abilities (36) against weaknesses (17). As he is heroic the difference shouldn't be greater than 5, but it seems to be staggering 19. Now my assumption is, his focus(Abilities from Suit) +3 counts additionally for each ability he would loose if without his suit. Am I correct or is there another reasonable answer behind this?

The easiest answer is that, as a post char-gen character, one is not limited by the +/-5 limit of Base Zero. So he probably used XP to add to his Ability totals. When the little box says all the sample characters are built with Base Zero, the NPCs of the later chapters are not part of that ruling.

Another answer is as a Big Bad, he has character resources greater than starting characters, so he wasn't restricted at all by the +/-5 rule.

A third possibility is that the GM assigned a different number than 5 for the Base Zero. I've used 10 for some more powerful characters, Myself.

One of My own Big Bads, Scarabus, has a 20 point difference, for example.

This would make sense if Shadowman were a boss like Scarabrous, but he is referred to as a heroic.

Maybe Clay can grant us some additional insight?
Especially according to loosing more than one ability with his focus I could imagine very well, that the focus might be multiplied. After all he looses a great deal of his powers if stripped of his suit.

Heroic NPCs are not bound to the Base Zero rule. The Base Zero rule, if used, only applies at Player Character creation, and in series with Experience, it's possible for player characters to get beyond the +5 total Ability limit of Base Zero.

The only difference between a Boss NPC and a Heroic NPC are Boss Abilities, which can be added and removed as appropriate for an NPC serving the function of a Boss NPC.

The Sample Player Characters are all Player Characters fresh out of character creation, and were created using Base Zero. The NPCs in the Sample NPCs Section that have specific stats given are not restricted in this manner (just like a Player Character that gets converted to an NPC wouldn't be subject to Base Zero).

This isn't an open invitation to just load up your NPCs with abilities, as you want to keep tabs on the Threat Value of your NPCs and what the NPCs are intended to do and design around that.

Indeed, Heroic in this manner only means the character starts at the full 40 Health/40 Endurance, instead of the 20 Health/20 Endurance of Secondaries or 10 Health/10 Endurance of Extras.

I guess both of you are right, this villain would be a post-creation NPC with many XP on his back.
Though personally I would've made a critter of his prominence a boss.

There's a lot of stuff in the core book that's a little off and could use better wording, but we adapt to it, and use the system as we like.

Personally, I have issues with the Gear stat and the Ammunition flaw, they are both oddly named and designed for what they do. But its easy to ignore or work around it, something I would like other systems to do.

This is a great little game.

Chris Brady wrote:But its easy to ignore or work around it, something I would like other systems to do.

This is a great little game.

Definitely, the flexibility of this "little" book is impressive. Yet there has been no question unanswered. For my plans (Power Rangers) it works flawlessly, from Morphin (Transformation) to Zord Mode (Vehicle). Spells? Special attacks? So easy! Cobble some perks/flaws together and here you go.

- Next topic: Ability Smart p.61

The description states:

You can roll your Smart dice when [...] casting spells [...]

In my understanding, those Smart dice would replace Agile, as is common with many systems regarding arcane magic. I might understand that clumsy could hamper somatic casting, but smart should be THE ability for mages when it comes to rolls. Or would agile and smart both apply when it comes to somatic casting?

If my thinking fails me here, I am thankful for any advice/correction.

- Next topic: Requirement Flaw p.88

By the way, regarding spells. If I give a spell the Requirement Flaw "somatic", meaning you have to have your hands free, where in in the range -5 to -20 should I allocate the level? On the one hand, -5 feels to low as the spell is literally impossible to cast, when injured, bound, but then -20 seems very steep when reading the example about Must Be the 12th Day of the 4th Month of the Ancient Galbelzan Calendar and a Full Blue Moon

Belisarion wrote:- Next topic: Ability Smart p.61

The description states:

You can roll your Smart dice when [...] casting spells [...]

In my understanding, those Smart dice would replace Agile, as is common with many systems regarding arcane magic. I might understand that clumsy could hamper somatic casting, but smart should be THE ability for mages when it comes to rolls. Or would agile and smart both apply when it comes to somatic casting?

If my thinking fails me here, I am thankful for any advice/correction.

I think you're describing two different cases of spellcasting or otherwise misunderstanding an ability or two.

First off, both flavors of Magic abilities - both Arcane (+ability) and Witchcraft (+weakness) - benefit from Smart and other applicable abilities (E.g. Knowledge of very specific schools of spells/curses) when trying for an effect beyond the natural level of the ability (e.g. trying for a +4 effect when Magic, Arcane is only at +3). However, they don't directly contribute to the combat roll. They can contribute indirectly, such as using an Arcane Magic effect of Strong applied to oneself. Look at Auren. He has attacks that are very clearly spells, but even for those, his attack rolls are 2 + Attack [+3], modified by the perks and flaws of the attack itself (Accurate X2 in the case of Thunder Godspell). However, using Atlas Arm (Magic, Arcane; effect of Strong +3) modifies his Orion attack's attack roll to be 8 instead of 5 since it is a melee attack. He could attempt a Strong +4 or Strong +5 effect, rolling 11 dice (2 standard, 3 Arcane Magic, 4 Knowledge [Magic], 2 Smart) against difficulty 8 or 10 [depending on target effect level], but the effects would require 30 (at +4) or 40 (at +5) endurance, not recoverable until the effects are dispelled. Smart itself also doesn't contribute directly to the attack roll.

- Next topic: Requirement Flaw p.88

By the way, regarding spells. If I give a spell the Requirement Flaw "somatic", meaning you have to have your hands free, where in in the range -5 to -20 should I allocate the level? On the one hand, -5 feels to low as the spell is literally impossible to cast, when injured, bound, but then -20 seems very steep when reading the example about Must Be the 12th Day of the 4th Month of the Ancient Galbelzan Calendar and a Full Blue Moon

A better reference for the -20 mark would be Miho's "Miho Ray", which carries a requirement that her Self-Preservation Mode transformation is active. This might not sound like much of a requirement, but it has two catches: First, her combined Health and Endurance has to get reduced to 10, and Second, while that transformation is in effect, the GM gets a considerable amount of influence over what her actual actions are.

For your example, I would argue that the -5 mark would be appropriate, -10 at most (see Raine's Electrical Storm attack). If you're bound, that falls under either a Paralyzed complication [see page 85] or a Flaw complication all things considered. Injuries in general actually fall under Impaired, which is a flat -1 (or more) to all actions while the impairment(s) persists. Since freeing up one's hands is a fairly simple task and that condition is easily done in most cases (I'm not sure an action is even needed for that), it really shouldn't be too much of an endurance discount.

Kitsune Zeta wrote:I think you're describing two different cases of spellcasting or otherwise misunderstanding an ability or two.

Slowly, I guess, I figure the mechanics for casting out. To even get a better grip of spellcasting, I list a couple of spells and try to figure the maths out.

- Acacia's Devil’s Breath on p.134 has Roll 3
it's the base +2 +1 from agility, right?

- Auren's Fireball, well that is a tough nut
he has roll 5 and a dx of 6
while I can figure out that his DX sums Attack +3, Effective x2 +2 and base +1 up, I wonder
where his roll 5 derives from. okay the base +2 is obvious, but the remaining +3 can only come
from combat expert?

his combat expert adds up to both his sword Orion and his spell fireball, correct?
what if I would want him to be a better caster than sword fighter, could I give him for
example combat +1 for every attack and combat(spells) +3 for his casting?

How would I calculate his number of abilities? adding both combat values and divide them by
two? Or would just the higher one count? (and would the same mechanic for example apply to
several knowledge abilities?)

Belisarion wrote:- Next topic: Ability Smart p.61

The description states:

You can roll your Smart dice when [...] casting spells [...]

In my understanding, those Smart dice would replace Agile, as is common with many systems regarding arcane magic. I might understand that clumsy could hamper somatic casting, but smart should be THE ability for mages when it comes to rolls. Or would agile and smart both apply when it comes to somatic casting?

Per the book, Smart only affects non-combat casting. Agile (in this case, being how quickly you can move your fingers to cast an attacking spell) or Combat Expert (in this case, being how well skilled you are in casting an attacking spell) are still the only Abilities that affect your combat rolls... unless you use apply the Will Attack perk, which changes Agile to Iron-Willed.

Now, I can see house ruling Will Attack to use Smart/Dense for the +/- attack roll and Iron-Willed/Weak-Willed for the +/- defense rolls. But that's still a house rule.

Belisarion wrote:- Next topic: Requirement Flaw p.88

By the way, regarding spells. If I give a spell the Requirement Flaw "somatic", meaning you have to have your hands free, where in in the range -5 to -20 should I allocate the level? On the one hand, -5 feels to low as the spell is literally impossible to cast, when injured, bound, but then -20 seems very steep when reading the example about Must Be the 12th Day of the 4th Month of the Ancient Galbelzan Calendar and a Full Blue Moon

Needing your hands free is the Elaborate Gesture weaknesses (also pg 88). This can apply either to Attacks but can also apply to casting non-combat spells, too.

Belisarion wrote:- Acacia's Devil’s Breath on p.134 has Roll 3
it's the base +2 +1 from agility, right?

She only has Agile +1 and no Combat Expert, so yes, base 2 plus Agile 1 for Roll 3.

Belisarion wrote:- Auren's Fireball, well that is a tough nut
he has roll 5 and a dx of 6
while I can figure out that his DX sums Attack +3, Effective x2 +2 and base +1 up, I wonder
where his roll 5 derives from. okay the base +2 is obvious, but the remaining +3 can only come
from combat expert?

Auren has Combat Expert +3 and no Agile, so yes, his basic attack rolls is base 2 plus Combat Expert 3 for a total of Roll 5.

Belisarion wrote:his combat expert adds up to both his sword Orion and his spell fireball, correct?
what if I would want him to be a better caster than sword fighter, could I give him for
example combat +1 for every attack and combat(spells) +3 for his casting?

How would I calculate his number of abilities? adding both combat values and divide them by
two? Or would just the higher one count? (and would the same mechanic for example apply to
several knowledge abilities?)

To keep it simple, I'd do Combat Expert +3 and then Clumsy -2. This way your physical attacks only get a +1 Roll, then you can apply Will Attack perk and you'd have the +3 total to your Rolls.

Otherwise, I'd do Combat Expert +1 and Iron-Willed +2, and again apply Will Attack perk. Again, you'd only have +1 Roll for all your normal attacks, but +3 Roll for any Will Attack. If you house rule Will Attack to use Smart for Attack Rolls, then obviously you can get Smart in lieu of Iron-Willed

All right, let’s try to go over all this. *cracks knuckles.

The Boss NPC Type
The reason the NPCs are listed as Heroic and not Boss is because Boss has no effect on a character’s attributes. It simply means that the GM can apply a couple of special Abilities that are only available to Bosses. There’s really no reason to list Shadowman as a “boss” because he, as written, has none of the special Boss Abilities. He’s just a really bad dude, that’s all.

Likewise, none of the NPCs follow the Base Zero rule. Keep in mind this rule is completely optional, and I think the various limitation rules are more important for PCs (who don’t always have the interest of game’s balance at heart.) than it is for GMs. But by all means, you certainly can make NPCs that follow the rules. I just elected not to. (You could also argue they built up a bunch of XP, as mentioned in this thread, but the truth is I just didn’t limit them.)

Magic
Actually, if you want to look at the rules to the letter, Auren’s attacks aren’t “spells” at all. They’re look like spells, they sound like spells, but as they are built in the system, they have nothing to do with Arcane Magic and everything to do with Attack. I could’ve built the attack spells into his general Magic Ability, but the Endurance cost would’ve been prohibitive (and they’re already very costly Endurance-wise.)

Even if I did though, Smart would only help with the casting roll, not the Attack Roll. If you want magic to be a more gymastic affair, just reword the Ability so that it is. Likewise, if you want the Attack Rolls to be based on something besides Combat Expert and Agile, you can likewise create new Perks or use existing ones (like Will Attack) to accomplish that.

I wouldn’t really recommend using both Smart and Agile at the same time for these. It either punishes characters who don’t train in disparate disciplines or overly rewards those who do. You can get quite the stacking going there.

-5 seems fine for somatic spellcasting. I definitely wouldn’t give it any higher, and as mentioned, you could just go for Elaborate Gestures and pass on creating a new Perk. -20, on the other hand, doesn’t need to be that specific, the rules even say so. That text was mostly left in because it was a completely unironic example in the first edition I felt inclined to keep for old time’s sake.

The easiest way to nerf the melee attacks of a mage is to give them Weak. This will make their damage output 1/2 DX, at least, but won’t affect any ranged spells.

If you don’t feel like “Magic Knowledge” should add to an Attack Roll (which I don’t throughout the book), it’s easy to create a “Combat Casting” Knowledge to fit the bill. Boom. No bonus to sword swinging, all the bonus to lighting goblins on fire.