Question Regarding Magic, Arcane

[DMDaniel]

Hey all! First time poster here, but my friends said the boards were very friendly and often frequented from the bigwigs in the system themselves. A brief history: I am a writer, and naturally am the GM for my player's group. We have done a lot of different systems (started in Old White Wolf, did Pathfinder, the new Star Wars, etc), and our most recent game was an alternate version of Shadowrun set in Japan. Being a long time anime fan I decided to try and give Shadowrun a more anime feel. At any rate, the latest edition of Shadowrun is just mind bogglingly terrible. It plays like three separate games and probably has the worst edited rule book I've ever had the misfortune to use. So I was GOING to houserule the poo out of it, and started proposing changes, and one of my players said "So...basically you just made OVA". I looked, and sure enough, I had! So now we're converting characters to OVA and having loads of fun. We just had our first session last night, and I had a possible problem I'm hoping to get clarified.

Most broadly, there doesn't seem to be any suggested limitation on the number of unique "attacks" a player can generate, so long as they use the perks and flaws etc. But the actual number of them seems limitless. Also, in creating new attacks, as they level up, are they simply permitted to just make new attacks at will? (Obviously coming from a restrictive structured system like Shadowrun, the players are a little bit like kids in a candy store with abilities). Is this something the rules expect each GM to limit with a house rule? Or am I missing something there?

More specifically, and here's the Arcane Magic question, it seems like Arcane Magic is pretty unbalanced to me. Obviously I have players coming in from Shadowrun, so they took Arcane Magic, and literally, as the rules are written, seemed to be able to do any things they could think of. They could design attacks and spells on the fly, and really just do as they pleased without limitation (save endurance costs of course). What ended up happening was the two players with high arcane magic ended up spending the entire combat just designing spells and wildly altering the entire context of the encounter. They had fun with it, so on the one hand that's a win, but as a GM, I can see designing balanced encounters for that ability would be REALLY hard.

Am I missing the limitations inherent in arcane magic? Or is it intended to be a "do anything as long as you've got the endurance" ability? Is it expected to be balanced by house rule? Or am I missing something? Both players invested heavily in the skill, and took it at a 4, just as a note. (It occurs to me it could be more balanced at lower levels maybe)

We love the system. I'm very jealous I don't get to be a player in it, actually. I just want to make sure we have the appropriate balance points to make sure everyone has fun in the long term. Cheat code abilities are fun in the short term, but tend to make a game feel boring over time, in my experience. Thanks in advance for any input!

[Atmo]

Also, in creating new attacks, as they level up, are they simply permitted to just make new attacks at will?

For me, I tell to my players to have only 4 Attacks + unarmed by default, and we don't go much outside of that.

it seems like Arcane Magic is pretty unbalanced to me.

Not to me, as Endurance and Weaknesses can give the caster a good headache when trying to do something too huge to the story/scene.

They could design attacks and spells on the fly, and really just do as they pleased without limitation (save endurance costs of course).

I would LOVE if my players did that...

Both players invested heavily in the skill, and took it at a 4, just as a note.

I think starting characters can only get Level 3 Abilities, at top. Only after a good amount of time and dedication that they can buy Level 4 and 5.

Or, maybe, you can just talk to them to tone it down.

[R-90-2]

I think starting characters can only get Level 3 Abilities, at top. Only after a good amount of time and dedication that they can buy Level 4 and 5.

Nah, that's only a light suggestion- there's nothing really hard-coded bout that sort of thing in character creation, which suits me just fine- would be kinda silly if the sample PCs couldn't be created by the game's own rules, as can be depressingly often the case.

[Atmo]

Nah, that's only a light suggestion- there's nothing really hard-coded bout that sort of thing in character creation, which suits me just fine- would be kinda silly if the sample PCs couldn't be created by the game's own rules, as can be depressingly often the case.

When your world differs from the "world-less" that the book gives you, some changes must be made. I didn't forbidden anything till now except by Witchcraft being bought by players and Gear that is awarded/found ingame.

[Clay]

One thing to remember is the book specifically discourages creating spells during the game for just that reason. While it sounds like everyone had a good time, I could easily see other Players not being as happy about waiting for the spellcaster to come up with his latest conjuration.

In any case, if you go into OVA with a “munchkin” mindset, it’s very, very easy to break. There’s nothing expressly forbidding you from making characters that are nothing but +5 Agile, +5 Attack, and +5 Quick and loading them up with a bunch of relatively inconsequential weaknesses...but that’s not very good storytelling.

Another thing to consider is every character can “cast a spell” in the form of Drama Dice. For five Endurance, you gain one die to anything...so the magical advantage is less concrete when you phrase it that way.

Finally, while +4 in Magic sound pretty cool, keep in mind you could have spent those character points instead on other Abilities, and have them permanently “boosted” forever without a special Endurance cost. Sure +2 bonus for 5 Endurance is pretty cheap, but is it “better” than a permanent +5 Attack?

But if you find it’s becoming too much of a force in your games, just talk to your Players and maybe dock that Ability to +3 or even +2. +4 should be a pretty rare occurrence anyway, and when it does appear, it is deservedly powerful.