Wise Turtle Publishing

So, I unfortunately missed the Kickstarter. But I did get to look at the PDF a friend who backed it just got, and now I'm practically counting the days until I can buy it too.

But that's not why I made this thread. No, see, I have questions. Lots of questions, and I'm sure there'll be more when I can actually buy the pdf and read it more in depth.

Right now, late as it is, only one big question sticks out in my mind. What would you need to change to make Apocalypse World style turn - less action work? The only thing I saw that strictly needed the whole action economy as it stands is the counter move, but I could have missed something. What do you all think?

Thanks!

Yalborap wrote:So, I unfortunately missed the Kickstarter. But I did get to look at the PDF a friend who backed it just got, and now I'm practically counting the days until I can buy it too.

It's good to see that I wasn't the only one to show the backer preview to other people (of my group).

Yalborap wrote:Right now, late as it is, only one big question sticks out in my mind. What would you need to change to make Apocalypse World style turn - less action work? The only thing I saw that strictly needed the whole action economy as it stands is the counter move, but I could have missed something. What do you all think?

I think you came with the wrong mindset: OVA is a game of its own, one you can bring ideas from other sources to add depth and awesomeness tot your table. But not the system.
A good advice would be "read the book while not thinking/try to compare with any other game".

Atmo wrote:I think you came with the wrong mindset: OVA is a game of its own, one you can bring ideas from other sources to add depth and awesomeness tot your table. But not the system.
A good advice would be "read the book while not thinking/try to compare with any other game".

You can totally mod the OVA system in any way you want, speaking as a person that does.

Unfortunately though I don't really know what the OP is asking for so I can't provide any suggestions myself, not being overly familiar with Apocalypse World.

Okay, so, lemme try and explain it.

You know how OVA works for conflicts, with the initiative and then everybody gets one action?

Apocalypse World and the other games based on those rules don't do that. It's all fiction based, with people just acting and reacting to each other back and forth with no initiative, and no strict limit on actions or anything else. From what I've read so far, only a small handful of things actually rely on that whole initiative - one action - round setup that OVA has, so I'd like to get away from that. Hope this makes sense, if not I'll try to explain better.

Oh, a more straightforward question. With the rules as written, countering takes your next action away, right? Would that include more defense rolls, or what? Like, you're playing a samurai fighting three mooks, let's say, already did your action for the round, and it's their turn now. They attack one by one. You counter one and split him down the middle. Then the second one attacks. Do you do nothing? Regular defense roll? Counter roll? Player's choice between the two? Or does something weird happen?

Thanks!

Yalborap wrote:Okay, so, lemme try and explain it.

You know how OVA works for conflicts, with the initiative and then everybody gets one action?

Apocalypse World and the other games based on those rules don't do that. It's all fiction based, with people just acting and reacting to each other back and forth with no initiative, and no strict limit on actions or anything else. From what I've read so far, only a small handful of things actually rely on that whole initiative - one action - round setup that OVA has, so I'd like to get away from that. Hope this makes sense, if not I'll try to explain better.

Oh, a more straightforward question. With the rules as written, countering takes your next action away, right? Would that include more defense rolls, or what? Like, you're playing a samurai fighting three mooks, let's say, already did your action for the round, and it's their turn now. They attack one by one. You counter one and split him down the middle. Then the second one attacks. Do you do nothing? Regular defense roll? Counter roll? Player's choice between the two? Or does something weird happen?

Thanks!

Oh I see what you mean. I guess if you're totally dead set on throwing out initiative and all that you could. The way I've always thought of a counter attack in terms of the fiction is that the time taken for your next round is just kind of used to make the counter attack instead, so you could just have a character who has counter attacked by unable to make any of these 'free' actions for a time perhaps.

There are a few other things that take away or otherwise mess with turns, such as Paralyse, the Stunned combat complication, also there's the whole taking multiple actions in a single 'turn' thing.

I'd personally advise you give playing with initiative a go and see how it works for you, as getting rid of it effects quite a few things (and makes some Abilities and Weaknesses more useful) but as I said if you and your group really hate it then I'm sure you could work around some of the stuff I've mentioned.

As for the other question: yes, even if you've countered the first enemy's attack you would get your defence action for the other two, but you can't counter those, as you've already given up your next turn with the first counter attack you made.

Yalborap wrote:Okay, so, lemme try and explain it.

You know how OVA works for conflicts, with the initiative and then everybody gets one action?

Apocalypse World and the other games based on those rules don't do that. It's all fiction based, with people just acting and reacting to each other back and forth with no initiative, and no strict limit on actions or anything else. From what I've read so far, only a small handful of things actually rely on that whole initiative - one action - round setup that OVA has, so I'd like to get away from that. Hope this makes sense, if not I'll try to explain better.

Exactly what I knew you would say. See, OVA and *World/narrative games are very different games. To try to take a base mechanic from the game without better reason than a "but I don't like it" is going lead you to failure.

I know I'm being harsh and/or rude, but try to play OVA as it is now. In time, you'll see what you want and don't want to take from this experience.

Mm, fair enough.

Oh, more mechanical questions!

As a followup to the counter question, how would you handle doing one of those iconic scenes where the samurai is jumped by a bunch of mooks, but in a single flash of her sword, counterattacks and strikes them all down where they stand? Just do it on the attack action of the samurai's turn, or am I missing some other option?

Two other questions, as regarding giant robots!

First, how would you do a transformer? Either the Autobot/Decepticon type, or just a giant robot that can take on multiple shapes in general?

Second, any thoughts on combining into a single super robot form? I can kind of sort of see that working as a funky form of Transformation, but the specifics seem...Weird. Any thoughts?

And lastly, a more general question. Anyone know of any good sources for adventure ideas for a more modern day setting? Like those quest generators for fantasy games, but not stuck in a fantasy setting.

Thanks!

Yalborap wrote:Second, any thoughts on combining into a single super robot form? I can kind of sort of see that working as a funky form of Transformation, but the specifics seem...Weird. Any thoughts?

There is a brief mention of Sentai in the OVA manual, so presumably the potential's there somewhere. Maybe someone will be nice & stat up the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers at some point, Megazord & all ...or a non copyrighted equivilent, anyway.

It’s been a long time since I’ve read Apocalypse World, but I’ll try to answer this the best I can. The truth is, the whole “action” economy is pretty ingrained throughout OVA. The Stunned and Paralyzed complications, countless Perks and Flaws, and Countering, as you mentioned, all make use of actions in very specific ways.

If you want to encourage a more narrative approach to initiative, it might be better to borrow a page from Marvel Heroic Roleplaying game, where after making a move, the player gets to choose who goes next. This is repeated until everyone has gone, then repeated. If someone has “lost an action” in OVA terms, then they cannot be passed a turn.

For the mook example, you could handle it a few ways. You could just have the samurai roll Defense for all the incoming attacks (which he should ace easily) then on his actual turn, retort with an Area Effect move that slices through all the attackers. Or he could use the “Multiple Actions” to individually strike each opponent in the same turn, and then you can use narrative to describe it as one fell swoop. You could also counter, as you suggested, but use an Area Effect attack to take on multiple opponents at the same time.

For Transformers, you could either use Transformation as written, or just write up two character sheets and swap as appropriate. You could make up an “Alternate Form” Ability and give it to both sheets if you want it to have mechanical significance.

I intentionally avoided “merged forms” in the rules because it’s doesn’t play nicely with groups. It’s all well in good to watch a show and root for their combined super-robot form, but in a game, you have to resort to either A) One player calling the shots *snore* B) awkwardly divvying up responsibilities among characters or C) giving everyone an action...at which point you may as well have kept the characters separate.

But the last one would be my suggestion. Create a new “Super Robot” character and let everyone take turns controlling it.

Clay wrote:I intentionally avoided “merged forms” in the rules because it’s doesn’t play nicely with groups. It’s all well in good to watch a show and root for their combined super-robot form, but in a game, you have to resort to either A) One player calling the shots *snore* B) awkwardly divvying up responsibilities among characters or C) giving everyone an action...at which point you may as well have kept the characters separate.

But the last one would be my suggestion. Create a new “Super Robot” character and let everyone take turns controlling it.

I guess B) Could work if you've figured out who does what in the cockpit: One person drives, second person handles the weapons, third person is sensors, fourth handles the Energy Management System, fifth is "Keep an eye on the Auto-Repair and give it a nudge as needed."

Something like that, anyway.

Option B is normally how ship-to-ship combat worked in Star Wars, at least in my experience. I don't necessarily see why this is a bad option.

In Amazing Engine's Kromosome (TSR game from 1993), I found it rather brilliant the way they handled netrunning - which was always a snore fest as one character went net-running and everyone else twiddled their thumbs for the next 30 minutes - in that it was considered so complex, it needed one person to handle attack programs, one to handle defense programs, one to handle this, one to handle that....basically Option B.

The trick is to make sure everyone had worthwhile and equal responsibilities, otherwise the guy handling the air conditioning will get real bored.

I have a new, entirely unrelated question.

The OVA dice mechanic, with the matching dice and such. I know the dedicated app is in the future, but are there any dice rolling apps or sites that you guys know of now that can do something similar for at least the dice rolling?

I'm going to ask a question in your thread because my question isn't big enough to warrant its own thread!

Going Invisible... how does it work? Does it take an action to activate? Can it be instantly activated at any moment, even outside your turn? If someone stabs you while you are invisible... do you stay invisible?

I have another question!

Super modes for transforming heroes. How might you achieve them? Double-stacked transformations seems like an answer, but that way also lies madness. Thoughts?