Making extraordinarily strong characters

[bushido11]

How would I be able to make, say, a Kryptonian character in OVA? There are Scale rules in revised, but how would I make that as a character, since the difficulties for doing things with the Strong ability apply to a human scale?

[bushido11]

Here's a possible solution to the problem of the Strong ability.

When a character goes beyond Strong Level 5, rather than increasing the level of Strong further, Strong gets replaced to a higher-scale ability representing a new order of strength magnitude, such as Super-Strong, with its own examples of what constitutes heaviness. For example, the heaviness of a refrigerator could be considered "Like a Feather!" with a DN of 2 (whereas it is normally considered "Wow, That's Heavy!" heaviness, DN of 8, for a character with the Strong ability).

As for opposed tests, if a Super-Strong character goes up against a non-Super-Strong character in a test of strength, the Super-Strong character gets the Scale bonus. If two Super-Strong characters oppose each other via a feat of strength, none get the Scale bonus.

Last but not least, Super-Strong characters get a DX bonus equal to 5 + their level of Super-Strong.

This can be extrapolated to ever-increasing scales of strength, such as Super-Duper-Strong, etc.

[Atmo]

As for opposed tests, if a Super-Strong character goes up against a non-Super-Strong character in a test of strength, the Super-Strong character gets the Scale bonus. If two Super-Strong characters oppose each other via a feat of strength, none get the Scale bonus.

Last but not least, Super-Strong characters get a DX bonus equal to 5 + their level of Super-Strong.

This can be extrapolated to ever-increasing scales of strength, such as Super-Duper-Strong, etc.

At first i was "ok, another comic lover, let him be", but them i read the marked line and my head twitched a little. A DX of 5+5 (minimum level for Super-Strong) would create a huge disparity on the table, were this character could create holes in holes with only his toes; it isn't safe for anyone.

Here is a suggestion: try to use the rules as they already are, without adding anything and collect the results. If they don't suit your gaming style, change them as you like.

[bushido11]

A minimum level for Super-Strong (level 1) would provide a DX of 5+1, not 5+5, since Super-Strong replaces Strong. The DX progression would continue as if Strong were to be increased beyond level 5, without having to extend the heaviness DN table to DNs beyond 15 (which there are none listed nor should their be) and while keeping abilities within a 5 level scale.

Also, if you're going to give a suggestion, keep the following in mind:

-Properly quote the post you are criticizing before leaving a suggestion, as that demonstrates a lack of reading comprehension skills.
-Doing so italicized comes off snarky, which leaves a bad impression.

Take care and have a good day.

[Atmo]

The only things that aren't recommended to surpass "level 5" are combat Abilities, the rest can work nicely at higher "levels".

[Clay]

Bushido: That's a fairly elegant way to handle it. Earlier drafts of OVA even worked in a similar fashion. Though if you actually look at comics and anime, you'll find that the strength scale levels off after a while.

While The Hulk can technically lift much more than Spider-man (Actually, my memory is fuzzy, if this is wrong, replace one or the other with the appropriately weaker Super Hero), you'll find writers have no problem at all making them go toe to toe in a fight. Even farther on the scale, you'll see team-ups like Batman and Superman, which, if you go buy the canon numbers, is completely implausible.

My point being is that you could probably get away with giving a "5" to such characters and calling it a day.

But if you find you really need to differentiate, and using the current scale rules ignores the fine details of lifting one nigh impossible thing (a mountain) from another (a planet), then by all means, Super-Strong as you write it sounds fine to me! The most important thing is the game plays how you and your players want it to play. Just like the rules encourage you to split up Pilot for your driving game or making Cooking an Ability equal to all the others for your Iron Chef game, you should very much add a Super-Strong for your Super-Strong Supers game. Just be careful that the extra DX doesn't overshadow other characters. Batman may be okay with Superman being able to turn The Joker into a greasy spot on the ground with one punch, but your players may not be so understanding when the fight's over before their initiative comes up, or worse, flail uselessly in a fight because the big-bad is statted up to resist Superman's strength.

[bushido11]

Clay:

In more traditional comics such as Marvel & DC, strength, potency, and speed probably have the most stratified ranges out of any super-trait, and I think the 1-5 scale for such things doesn't do it justice, especially as OVA is aimed at simulating character traits by terms of effectiveness, rather than in terms of story importance, which are more along the lines of games like the latest incarnation of a Marvel RPG, Marvel Heroic Roleplaying.

In your DC example, Superman would definitely hold back the amount of damage he does, as he is forced to do this with almost every foe he faces (with Doomsday and Darkseid being notable exceptions). Also, the nature of these comics being as they are, a character like Batman would have very different abilities depending on the story he is in. In Detective and Batman comics, he is much more grounded, while in Batman/Superman or Justice League comics, he uses more potent gadgets, is highly strategic, and often has "to hit" and "avoidance" stats that are on-par or better than his super-powered opponents. Superman, on the other hand, always faces the greatest threats, is the titular meat shield, and does his best to minimize property damage/loss of life (disregarding the Man of Steel movie). Exercising a maximum damage multiplier would still be a good idea, though, for the sake of balance and group cohesion.

Last but not least, there's the Joker. There's always more to the Joker than a straight-up fight. For example, one episode of Justice League has the Joker as the episode's main antagonist. He sets up 25 bombs throughout Las Vegas and the Justice League has 15 minutes to disarm the bombs. He is in an undisclosed location where even Martial Manhunter is unable to locate him (IIRC). He has the Royal Flush gang impeding the League's efforts, all while broadcasting the spectacle on national TV. Last but not least is his wild card: Royal Flush member Ace, who has the power of hypnosis, who the Joker has on TV so that everyone watching will be mind-controlled to do something I don't remember at the moment (but it's bad).

As for fighting Superman-level threats, that's where you can target their weaknesses or create weak spots. The challenge may even involve in other objectives, such as fighting off minions, disarming traps, disabling the thing that powers the threat to Superman-levels of ability, trap the big-bad, or simply to stall the threat until Superman is able to help. Same with Hulk vs. Spider-Man. The objective may not be to beat up the Hulk in a straight fight. It could simply be to lure the Hulk out of the city and to someone he cares about like Betty Ross, who has a calming effect, for example.

I know that OVA is designed specifically with emulating anime in mind, but I'm just that kind of guy who likes to tinker with RPGs to see how far they can stretch. With that being said, I can't wait to get my copy of OVA in the mail. Is there an ETA on when they will be shipped, Clay?

[Clay]

All valid points! As I've said before on these forums, if something doesn't work for you as written, change it! What's important is telling the story you want to tell. And again, I did try something similar to this in earlier drafts of OVA, so it's not like it's totally left field.

[Joe_Mello]

Obligatory link when discussing power levels of Kryptonians on Earth

[thwaak]

Thread Necromancy!

Ahem...been thinking about this topic lately. Seems to me a nice easy way to get around this problem of super strong (or fast, or intelligent, or whatever) is to create an expensive Perk (+10 or 20?) called Scale. It can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it ups the Scale of the character's ability by one level.

So, if taken once and applied to Strong, he gets the Scale bonus on Strength against an average character, but in turn, if facing someone with two levels of Scale, he gets nothing, and the opponent gets the bonus dice now. Same way with Quick. One level of Scale allows the character to keep up with a Motorcycle on a flat run, but will still lose to a plane, and so on.

Thoughts?

[CursedEmbrace]

Thread Necromancy!

Ahem...been thinking about this topic lately. Seems to me a nice easy way to get around this problem of super strong (or fast, or intelligent, or whatever) is to create an expensive Perk (+10 or 20?) called Scale. It can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, it ups the Scale of the character's ability by one level.

So, if taken once and applied to Strong, he gets the Scale bonus on Strength against an average character, but in turn, if facing someone with two levels of Scale, he gets nothing, and the opponent gets the bonus dice now. Same way with Quick. One level of Scale allows the character to keep up with a Motorcycle on a flat run, but will still lose to a plane, and so on.

Thoughts?

The way I've tended to handle it in recent campaigns is to allow players to go beyond 5 in the same way they usually would (buying level 6 in an ability with 6 xp) and that essentially moves them up to the next scale for that skill and obviously, if they face off against another opponent of the same scale they don't get the 5 dice scale bonus (or, to put it another way, they don't get the benefit of the first 5 levels in an ability against someone of the same tier), so they end up using relatively low numbers of dice against each other, even when the combatants are the kinds of characters who tear mountains apart with their minds.

When it comes to stuff like the Strong lifting chart, I'd probably just treat it a little more vaguely or make the items that are lift-able less drastically different to allow for increased scaling, it has all worked well enough so far, it helps that the players in question are totally on board with all the house-rules and such that I end up doing.