I'm a little uncertain how the Inventor quality would work during a game.
Let's say for example, that I have a character with Inventor at 3 and smart at 3. He and his friends have found themselves trapped on a slow garbage barge making its way across the ocean to certain destruction. Now my character's friends are relying on him to come up with a clever way of using the junk on the boat to get them off the boat and back home again. Naturally he rolls up his sleeves, digs into the junk and rolls his eight dice. The dice get him a total of 10. According to the preview book, that gets him a 'very useful' invention, correct? He has now constructed an airship out of the junk he rummaged from the trash barge. No problem there, it's not pretty and it smells horrible, but it'll do the job.
My question now though is, does that invention get build up like a vehicle at +3? Did he just give himself a +3 vehicle ability by using his inventor ability? Will he gain gear or vehicles every time he invents?
Inventor and Inventiveness
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
The short answer: It works however you want it to work!
Long answer: It depends on the tone of your game and how important you want the invention to be.
If it's just a means of getting from point A to B, you probably don't need to stat it at all. It's an airship. It flies. Maybe it smells a little and there's some disturbing stains on the deck. That's all you need to know.
If this vehicle will become a mainstay in the characters' adventures, you should probably stat it up. This opens up possibilities to have, say, an airship battle with the big bad, or really decide if this airship can fly the Kessel Run in under five parsecs.
And while an inventor can theoretically accrue quite the collection of useful things, keep in mind these things have to be A) stored and B) maintained. For practicality alone, an Inventor should probably only be allowed to keep one or two major inventions at a time. Older inventions get dismantled for parts, fall into disrepair, or lost in that bottomless pit that may have once been a closet.
But when you combine Inventor with things like Hammerspace or Filthy Rich, you easily have the option to have more inventions at the ready. Just remember, it's the story that matters.
Long answer: It depends on the tone of your game and how important you want the invention to be.
If it's just a means of getting from point A to B, you probably don't need to stat it at all. It's an airship. It flies. Maybe it smells a little and there's some disturbing stains on the deck. That's all you need to know.
If this vehicle will become a mainstay in the characters' adventures, you should probably stat it up. This opens up possibilities to have, say, an airship battle with the big bad, or really decide if this airship can fly the Kessel Run in under five parsecs.
And while an inventor can theoretically accrue quite the collection of useful things, keep in mind these things have to be A) stored and B) maintained. For practicality alone, an Inventor should probably only be allowed to keep one or two major inventions at a time. Older inventions get dismantled for parts, fall into disrepair, or lost in that bottomless pit that may have once been a closet.
But when you combine Inventor with things like Hammerspace or Filthy Rich, you easily have the option to have more inventions at the ready. Just remember, it's the story that matters.
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
Okay, makes sense, in all honesty I asked that question as a lead in and basis for the following...
I have a player who has designed a character around the idea of a potion-master. He brews up all sorts of concoctions in his lab and uses them on his adventurers for many different purposes; gaining temporary abilities, healing, applying poisons or weaknesses on his enemies, etc... At a base level this sounds like a tweaked version of arcane, healing and witchcraft to me, but how is endurance use handled? Would he spend it in the lab while brewing the potion, or just when using the potion? Since he could also hand potions to someone else to use, who's endurance would it then use? The thought of making the potions beforehand sounds more like inventor than casting magic on the fly with arcane and witchcraft, making the potion itself more of an ability granting piece of gear. Also, the potions are a bit unstable and as such have different levels of effect and duration. I need to figure a good random duration mechanic.
To make matters slightly more complicated, they were also going to take walking arsenal: potions, with the idea thatched has lots of these things brewed and stashed in pockets, belts, cloaks, etc, ready to be used at a moment's notice.
I like the idea, but I could use some suggestions on how it could be implemented effectively. I don't want it to bog down the game, or become overpowered (a solution to every problem). Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?
I have a player who has designed a character around the idea of a potion-master. He brews up all sorts of concoctions in his lab and uses them on his adventurers for many different purposes; gaining temporary abilities, healing, applying poisons or weaknesses on his enemies, etc... At a base level this sounds like a tweaked version of arcane, healing and witchcraft to me, but how is endurance use handled? Would he spend it in the lab while brewing the potion, or just when using the potion? Since he could also hand potions to someone else to use, who's endurance would it then use? The thought of making the potions beforehand sounds more like inventor than casting magic on the fly with arcane and witchcraft, making the potion itself more of an ability granting piece of gear. Also, the potions are a bit unstable and as such have different levels of effect and duration. I need to figure a good random duration mechanic.
To make matters slightly more complicated, they were also going to take walking arsenal: potions, with the idea thatched has lots of these things brewed and stashed in pockets, belts, cloaks, etc, ready to be used at a moment's notice.
I like the idea, but I could use some suggestions on how it could be implemented effectively. I don't want it to bog down the game, or become overpowered (a solution to every problem). Anyone have any thoughts or ideas?
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
The better solution, I think, is to use Inventor and Hammerspace. This eliminates the problematic use of Endurance—which as you point out doesn't really fit well with something totally separated from the character as potions. Also, Hammerspace keeps the character from becoming a catch-all solution, because often enough he will not pull the item he wants (He can't find it, he ran out, accidentally broke it earlier)...or worse, accidentally pull out that "Hyper Combustion Tonic" when he really wanted that "Fire-Extinguishing Elixer" ...
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
That's a good idea Clay, I like that. Then I just let the player make up whatever potion he pulled out of his stash based on the Hammerspace roll, based on what he stated he was looking for before the roll occurred.
That works while in combat or under stress and time constraints. When that is not the case, I'm thinking the same hammerspace roll, but the result is just a measure of how long it took to dig through his potions and find the one he wants. However, failing that roll means the potion he was looking for was missing, broken or simply not prepared and thus cannot look for it again until he gets the chance to brew more.
The last thing I need to figure out then is potion duration... because, as we all know, that Strong +4 or Fly potion wearing off at inopportune times is half the fun of this.
Edit:
I've thought of one possible way of doing this, let me know what you think. Upon wanting to use a potion the character makes the hammerspace roll to see what they get. Then upon success, or failure if they still pull a potion, I roll their Inventor dice secretly to determine how effectively they brewed that particular potion, and we see what happens.
That works while in combat or under stress and time constraints. When that is not the case, I'm thinking the same hammerspace roll, but the result is just a measure of how long it took to dig through his potions and find the one he wants. However, failing that roll means the potion he was looking for was missing, broken or simply not prepared and thus cannot look for it again until he gets the chance to brew more.
The last thing I need to figure out then is potion duration... because, as we all know, that Strong +4 or Fly potion wearing off at inopportune times is half the fun of this.
Edit:
I've thought of one possible way of doing this, let me know what you think. Upon wanting to use a potion the character makes the hammerspace roll to see what they get. Then upon success, or failure if they still pull a potion, I roll their Inventor dice secretly to determine how effectively they brewed that particular potion, and we see what happens.
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
Sounds like a good idea to me! The Revised game has a small section specifically about "hidden" rolls, so it fits just fine into the game. 
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
I tried this out at our last session and it seemed to work okay, but it's a bit dice heavy. If they're looking for a potion to use against an enemy, they then need to hit said enemy with the potion. That's a standard attack roll, three rolls to accomplish one action. Should that be broken up into multiple rounds? One round to pull out the potion, and another to launch it at your foes?
Another question that came up, what mechanics would be used to simply render someone unconscious? My potion master wanted to incapacitate an enemy without actually hurting them and wanted something along the lines of a sleep potion. Looking at the mechanics, the only way to really do that is to at least reduce their endurance to zero if not both endurance and health. That's generally between 40 and 80 points of 'damage' to work through... hmm....
Sleep Potion:
Continued Effect (+10)
Fatiguing (+0)
No damage (-20)
Will Attack (+0)
Effective x3 (+15)
Cancel: Do not sleep (-5)
Another question that came up, what mechanics would be used to simply render someone unconscious? My potion master wanted to incapacitate an enemy without actually hurting them and wanted something along the lines of a sleep potion. Looking at the mechanics, the only way to really do that is to at least reduce their endurance to zero if not both endurance and health. That's generally between 40 and 80 points of 'damage' to work through... hmm....
Sleep Potion:
Continued Effect (+10)
Fatiguing (+0)
No damage (-20)
Will Attack (+0)
Effective x3 (+15)
Cancel: Do not sleep (-5)
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CursedEmbrace
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Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
I'd say it'd probably make sense to keep it as one round, thinking about rounds as a few seconds of time or whatever. Maybe you could have it take one round if they're pulling a 'random' potion out of their bag, but if they were to carefully search (which'd take a full action) they'd get whatever it is they want, instead of having to make a roll for 'invention' or what not?Atsu wrote:I tried this out at our last session and it seemed to work okay, but it's a bit dice heavy. If they're looking for a potion to use against an enemy, they then need to hit said enemy with the potion. That's a standard attack roll, three rolls to accomplish one action. Should that be broken up into multiple rounds? One round to pull out the potion, and another to launch it at your foes?
Another question that came up, what mechanics would be used to simply render someone unconscious? My potion master wanted to incapacitate an enemy without actually hurting them and wanted something along the lines of a sleep potion. Looking at the mechanics, the only way to really do that is to at least reduce their endurance to zero if not both endurance and health. That's generally between 40 and 80 points of 'damage' to work through... hmm....
Sleep Potion:
Continued Effect (+10)
Fatiguing (+0)
No damage (-20)
Will Attack (+0)
Effective x3 (+15)
Cancel: Do not sleep (-5)
As for the sleep potion, against a minion (which'd have more like 10 health, 10 endurance) that all looks pretty fine and easy to make work, possibly even try and throw in area of effect too, since I guess they'd throw the potion and it'd be like a sleeping gas chemical reaction with the air or something. But my personal preference would be for bigger threats to not be so easily put to sleep... but between you and your player you could make up a new strength to better represent this sleeping potion, maybe some kind of opposing roll between the potion's strength (probably 'calculated' by levels of the user's invention and what not) vs an enemy's resistance.)
Hope all that garbled nonsense made sense.
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
If they have a few standard potions that they use as attacks, maybe they should design those attacks (perhaps with the ammunition flaw?) and assume the character keeps those particular potions at hand. (As opposed to potions that they may or may not have made or remembered to bring, which would require a roll of Hammerspace and Inventor.)
You could write this off as the character having particular pouches or pockets for those potions, or maybe one of those neato bandoliers.
ALSO: For a sleep status effect, just use Paralyze? Remember that that perk says "you may choose to do no damage and inflict the Paralyzed complication automatically."
You could write this off as the character having particular pouches or pockets for those potions, or maybe one of those neato bandoliers.
ALSO: For a sleep status effect, just use Paralyze? Remember that that perk says "you may choose to do no damage and inflict the Paralyzed complication automatically."
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
Actually, that does bring up a point I did want to ask Clay to make sure I was reading it right. If you need to take the paralysis perk once, you can cause paralysis if you do half their total health in damage with the attack. But, you can only choose to do no damage and just apply the paralysis effect if you take the perk twice?
Re: Inventor and Inventiveness
StarRaven: That's similar to how I handled Auren, who has a list of spells but still has Attacks like "Fireball" defined outside of his Magic ability.
As for Paralyzing, that's correct. It's such a powerful perk that, lack of damage or not, the ability to apply it automatically is limited to when you take it twice. (This also makes it behave like the Impairing/Disarming/etc. Perks, which activate on a 1/4 damage or automatically if you eschew giving damage at all.)
As for Paralyzing, that's correct. It's such a powerful perk that, lack of damage or not, the ability to apply it automatically is limited to when you take it twice. (This also makes it behave like the Impairing/Disarming/etc. Perks, which activate on a 1/4 damage or automatically if you eschew giving damage at all.)