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 Post subject: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:00 pm 
Worthy Tortoise

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I know that in most anime weapons are usually part of the character, being them the signature weapon (Vash's gun, Goemon's katana, Guts' Dragonslayer and so on), anyway, for a particular (more "realistic"/deadly/mundane) setting I need to separate weapons from characters.

Anyone tried this? It's something that could happen during any game: let's say that Braun picks a handgun from a fallen foe (he had a gun back in 1st edition)... how do you stat this "temporary" weapon?

I don't know if this was asked before, I was thinking to use "temporary weapons": since weapons are part of the Attack ability, I'd use them as a "detachable skill". This doesn't mean that Attack cannot be bought, for a "realistic" game setting characters can take it to simulate martial arts training or even steel fists.
Of course the "temporary weapon" replaces your attack, being a separated ability (so, in the example above, Braun will benefit from this... well barely, since he has no Combat Skill at all :) )

Handgun (+1 Attack: ranged, ammunition, effective)
Revolver (+1 Attack: ranged, ammunition x2, effective x2)
Machinegun (+1 Attack: ranged, area effect, ammunition, inaccurate)
Mortar (+1 Attack: ranged, area effect x2, assisted, ammunition x2, activation, effective x3)

I did not use the "weapon" flaw since... well all of them would have it! (it's balanced by the +1 attack, that it's equivalent to Effective).

I'd like to know if someone tried something similar.


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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:29 am 
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Characters are able to generate "attacks" on the fly at any time, which do not cost any character points.

So in order to have 'temporary' weapons, the character has that attack option but then discards it later. It's perfectly fine that all those have the Weapon defect. Not only does that make the temporary attack more useful than the character's base attack abilities, it also accurately describes that the attack is from a source outside of the character.

Alternatively, if you do not want to use the Weapon defect, you can use the Gear ability to describe the attack is from a source outside of the character.

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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:39 pm 
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Malancthon wrote:
Characters are able to generate "attacks" on the fly at any time, which do not cost any character points.


Yes, but I think I read somewhere that characters should not have more than 4/5 different attacks (correct?).

I also prefer to avoid using the same Attack skill of the characters, using them as a separated ability, for a simple reason: "Braun wields a handgun" VS "Raine wields a handgun" give different results.
Raine already has the Attack ability, so he would get a better weapon... and this is something I try to avoid. I know it's a small thing, but if I use this one:

Handgun (+1 Attack(weapon): ranged, ammunition, effective)

I got a pretty bad gun that everyone can use (Raine will still be better, due to his combat skill, but the weapon itself is the same).

All the sample weapons I listed have the ammunition flaw, because they are meant to be discarded after being used (like in Beat 'em up videogames).


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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:27 pm 
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markodude wrote:
Yes, but I think I read somewhere that characters should not have more than 4/5 different attacks (correct?).

There is a recommendation to have a couple of stock attacks available just for ease of gameplay, but there is no real limit to the number of attacks a character can do.

You are probably thinking of this thread and the linked thread in it.

Clay wrote:
There’s no explicit limitations on the number of moves you can have, but generally 3-4 is best. Too many and characters become a sort of swiss army knife, which is rarely dramatically appropriate.

Also, you can create Attack moves on the fly, but just make sure players A) make these Attacks thematically appropriate to their character and B) don’t spend too much time doing so. It’s not fun waiting for a player to hand-perfect his latest attack move, nor is it in good spirit to intentionally create moves to counteract enemy strengths without just cause story-wise.

markodude wrote:
I also prefer to avoid using the same Attack skill of the characters, using them as a separated ability, for a simple reason: "Braun wields a handgun" VS "Raine wields a handgun" give different results.
Raine already has the Attack ability, so he would get a better weapon... and this is something I try to avoid. I know it's a small thing, but if I use this one:

Handgun (+1 Attack(weapon): ranged, ammunition, effective)

I got a pretty bad gun that everyone can use (Raine will still be better, due to his combat skill, but the weapon itself is the same).

All the sample weapons I listed have the ammunition flaw, because they are meant to be discarded after being used (like in Beat 'em up videogames).

I'm not sure what you are getting at. A character's Attack level represents how generally deadly someone is. If Raine has a higher Attack than Braun, that's because Raine has invested in being deadlier than Braun, so it follows that Raine does more damage than Braun even if using the same type of weapon. This would probably represent Raine knowing better or more effective places to hit than Braun, not that Raine has a better gun than Braun.

If you're looking for equalness among Attack ability, you can either restrict the level the character's can get, or apply Focus to Raine, so he'd only have his higher Attack level for what he specializes in (swords, for example).

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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Quote:
If you're looking for equalness among Attack ability, you can either restrict the level the character's can get, or apply Focus to Raine, so he'd only have his higher Attack level for what he specializes in (swords, for example).


Yes! That's exactly what I meant. I never used Focus or Gear much, but I like this limitation for a focused/specialized fighter (I used Raine just as an example, but this is what I wanted to say: he's a samurai, so his attack skill would not be used if armed with a gun)


Last edited by markodude on Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:27 pm 
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Glad that helped. Gear is a bit of a tricky ability to use, since it doesn't really provide any mechanical advantage, just makes it easier to separate a character's abilities as from an outside source.

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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:32 am 
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Malancthon wrote:
Gear is a bit of a tricky ability to use


True, unfortunately there's no sample character that uses it, maybe that's why I never used it. :)

Anyway I think that Focus is more indicated for what I mean, I noticed that every attack ability has a sort of specialization indicated (es: Karis has "Attack (boomerang)", while Shou has "Attack (ninjitsu)") but I plan to use Focus as a restriction, as said before.


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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:22 pm 
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I've always read that as more of a shorthand of the type of attacks those characters would normally use, but not as a limitation of only those types of attacks available to them.

Focus is probably what you are looking for. I'd suggest checking out the paragraphs on page 50 and 71 for some more details on using Focus with Attack.

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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 2:31 am 
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And another reason for the 3-4 moves is that most Anime, most hero(ine)es have a few distinctive, AKA signature attacks. Often they get to add to them, but it's rare that they use more than that.

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 Post subject: Re: "Temporary" weapons
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:00 pm 
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It's difficult to buck long-standing traditions of RPGs, and one of those is that a weapon is a separate entity from the character and has a specific damage rating/roll/etc. associated with it that is unchanging.

Of course there's nothing wrong with that, and using Gear or simply handwaving a sort of temporary equipment list is perfectly fine in OVA. But unless characters are picking up new weapons is the norm (such as it is in, say, a fantasy or zombie apocalypse campaign), you should consider newly acquired or improvised weapons as a package of Perks and Flaws...a new Attack MOVE, per se, instead of its own unique attack.

That is, when Raine picks up a gun, he gains a new attack move that's Ranged, and maybe a few other Perks pending on the weapon we're talking about. When Braun picks it up, he also gains this same move.

The Damage, however, is still based on the Attack Ability. Raine isn't punished for picking up the gun with a decreased damage from his sword, and Braun doesn't immediately gain an immense boost in power from the same.

If you actually pay attention to most cinematic entertainment, this is basically how it works. A character picks up a chair and bashes it impromptu against another opponent is just as effective as he was when he was wielding his weapon. He doesn't get a suddenly decreased DX—if he did, why would he even bother in the first place? Likewise, even if Braun managed to hit someone with said chair, it's likely to be played off as comic relief.

But that's just me. Your mileage may vary, and the previous more traditional takes will suit just fine.


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