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Wise Turtle Publishing • View topic - Over-the-top Idea

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 Post subject: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:43 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:19 am 
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Last edited by Malancthon on Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:19 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:59 am 
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So a more in-depth system for Scaling? Lemme get a solid look through and I'll give you my feedback.

Cuz I might need a system like that soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:46 pm 
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Instead of dividing Health and Damage in this way, you could arguably make use of the Health Reserve Boss Ability to inflate Health totals.


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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:59 pm 
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On one hand, the Scale system is a quick and dirty way to show power disparity. However, that doesn't always cover a few mecha shows. On the other hand, this system breaks power and toughness in two, and frankly, I don't see how this works.

And citing Palladium's Rifts as an example is proof (to me and only me) that this system is going to cause me no end of headaches. (For example: In Rifts a bunch -AKA 5- of soldiers or bandits with their equivalent of assault rifles can take out a giant robot -UAR-5 Enforcer- in one 15 second attack round, they lost one soldier, the robot was blown up. This is like a bunch of terrorists being able to take down a M1 Abrams tank with nothing but AK-74s. Just on a financial basis, this behooves most militaries to not use robots or tanks, but rather arm and armour their soldiers.)

I like the idea of ranks for power and durability for mechs, because (for example to use a classic Anime: Mospeada) there are three levels. You have regular people, next up is the transforming power armour/motorcycle (The Cyclone series in the American version) and then you have the mecha tanks and aircraft (The Alpha and Beta again, in the American version.)

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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 8:30 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 3:51 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:42 am 
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I'm still playing around with these abilities. These are just some thoughts on how one can best use the abilities, either as a player or as a GM.

How to use Monstrous Abilities

The first thing to be aware of is that one does not have to use the Monstrous Abilities, especially if the use would not be appropriate for the game. After all, the use of Magic might not be appropriate for a Giant Robot game, nor would Giant Robots be normally appropriate for a Samurai game. So if the abilities don't fit the needs of the story, there is no reason to use them.

So, when would be an appropriate time to use them? The two most useful times would be either for giant robots (mecha) or with supernatural encounters, such as demons, vampires, werewolves. The abilities can also be useful for high fantasy games, such as those emulating Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest, in which the heroes and the villains can have and deal hundreds if not thousands of damage. Many shonen-type fantasy stories would also benefit from the abilities- Dragon Ball Z being a prime example of an appropriate time to use these abilities.

As such, keeping the Monstrous Abilities under the Transformation or Vehicle Abilities (as Mecha Abilities) can be a good way to keep a sort of balance for player characters. They still remain 'human', ie normal, but when the need comes for action, the heroes are able to wield incredible power.

Another thing to consider is how high of a level to use. Very rarely should players start with higher than 1 levels in Monstrous Abilities. Likewise, it should be rare for players to need to go higher than level 3. Levels 4 and 5 are best kept for either ultra powerful boss encounters or divine/cosmic powers.

Monstrous Abilities are intended to work with the normal Strong, Tough, and Vigor abilities, allowing a player to tweak their totals in a variety of ways to generate the stats that appeal best to them. For example, a character with Tough 4 and Monstrous Durability 1 would be equal to a character with no levels of Tough but Monstrous Durability 2. While the second character would be more economical with their levels, the first character would know that when they get to level 2 Monstrous Durability, their Health total will be higher. This can also be useful for characters who are not able to reach level 2 Monstrous Abilities.

For quick reference, here are the min-max values for Health and Endurance per level.
1: 200-500
2: 400-1000
3: 1000-2500
4: 2000-5000
5: 4000-10000


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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:47 am 
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At x5, level 1 Monstrous Abilities are a good start to allow for powerful characters. Demons and Werewolves would be suitable at this level, especially in comparison to the 'normal' characters, the mundane or human characters. This can also be suitable for Vehicles that are tougher than characters without overshadowing them. Iron Man's suit, for example. Level 1 could also be appropriate for a superhero game with characters like Superman or Thor to coexist with more human level characters like Batman or Spider-Man.

Level 2 abilities are for the most part an intermediary level. Useful as the next tier up for characters with Monstrous Abilities, a means to challenge level 1 characters. For Mecha, level 2 works well for heroic 'realistic' robots, such as Gundams or Macross Valkyries. Level 1 mecha would then be for tanks or other NPC robots. At a maximum of 1000 HP/EN, GMs may wish to limit Dragon Quest or Shin Megami Tensei-esque games at level 2 for players, as 999 was a limit for HP in many older RPGs, or for MP in many modern RPGs.

Level 3 is the start of the heavy hitters, appropriate for demi-gods or master heroes. Few characters will reach this level, and even fewer will start here. At this level, characters are literally weapons of mass destruction, able to single-handily take on entire armies or even challenge gods, giant monsters, perhaps even Level 3 is also appropriate for Super Robots, such as GaoGaiGar, Mazinger Z, or Megazords, as these robots are expected to single-handily take on overwhelming threats.

As mentioned before, players should not need to reach level 4 or 5, kept best for gods or big bads. As the saying goes, there is always a bigger fish, and that is what levels 4 and 5 represent. However, if starting at level 3, then allowing a character to reach level 4 might be appropriate so they can adequately meet the challenge of a level 5 final boss.

Lastly, at level 5 is the top of the food chain. Very little can single-handily face a level 5 character, requiring a group effort to take even one down. As such, there is little reason to allow player characters to reach this level except as an extremely over the top power fantasy, with little to stop them. That's not to say there isn't room to play at this level, as the anime and light novel series Overlord shows. There is also the question of the use of power at that level (really, at any Monstrous Ability level, but at the highest level can give one the most time to think about that).


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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:49 am 
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Magic and Monstrous Drive

Monstrous Drive, that is, vastly increasing one's Endurance, can be seen as a potential game breaker. With it, even low levels of Magic can be usable, having plenty of Endurance to cast even the higher cost abilities. Attacks can burn more Endurance freely for Perks. As such, GMs might wish to limit Monstrous Drive to only 1 or 2 levels, or not use it at all. However, GMs can also make interesting encounters with physically weak but spiritually strong characters, giving spellcasters a similar durability that their tank-like compatriots might have.

Another potential game breaker is a character with Magic who uses it to cast Monstrous Destruction at max level (+5) to curbstomp an encounter. It is recommended that a character with Magic can only cast a Monstrous Ability equal to the highest level on the field. So if the party is facing a demon lord with Monstrous Destruction +3, the Magic user would not be able to cast Monstrous Destruction +4 or +5 (unless an ally had MD +4 or +5).

The last consideration one should give is the Endurance cost with Monstrous Durability. One might think that if they have high Health, they can spam Endurance costs. To counter that, the Endurance cost with Health can be increased by the Monstrous Durability level modifier. For example, if the normal cost of an attack is 5 Endurance, the character has no Endurance remaining but has Monstrous Durability +3, then the amount of Health expended is 125 (5x25); proportionally the same amount expended if the character did not have Monstrous Durability. If the character has Monstrous Drive, then the modifier would be equal to difference in levels. Again, for example the normal cost of an attack is 5 Endurance, the character has no Endurance but has Monstrous Durability +3 and Monstrous Drive +1, then the amount of Health expended would be 50 (3-1= 2; 5x10).


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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:21 am 
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Encounters with Monstrous Abilities

In general, players should be able to challenge a character with Monstrous Abilities one higher than their own. The biggest hurdle would be characters with no levels of Monstrous Abilities versus an encounter with the first level of Monstrous Abilities, as the modified attribute is five times greater than normal. The difference between all the other abilities is only doubled, except for the difference between level 2 and level 3 which is tripled.

To prevent accidental slaughter of the players, a GM may choose to only use higher levels of Monstrous Durability, increasing the challenges Health but not the damage they inflict. This can be useful for making a super tough or nearly unbeatable encounter (5000+ Health) but since the damage is bearable for a normal encounter, the players should be able to survive long enough to wisen up and escape or to come up with an alternate non-combat strategy to win.

To provide an example, here is one of My go-to Big Bads. I originally statted him up by the book. This version, however, uses high levels of Monstrous Drive and Monstrous Durability to 'rule', however he has only Monstrous Destruction +1 to make him a usable boss against normal characters. Another thing to note is how he uses a higher Endurance than Health, but his total is still 10,000 (before accounting for Boss Health Reserve).

SCARABUS

The day the demon Scarabus first set foot on our earthly plane is unknown, but the earliest recorded stories of his influence were written around 3300 BC in ancient Egypt. As legend has it, demons must shed their physical form when crossing over into our world, only to be reborn from the lifeless shell of the recently departed. Reborn from the body of his eventual namesake, a scarab beetle, Scarabus bares little resemblance to the creature that granted him new life. Combined with his own hellish visage of horns, hoooves, and a forked tail- glistening golden skin and dangerous pinchers sprouting from his back- are all that remain of the creature that bore him. He is a devastatingly powerful creature able to resurrect the dead, only to transform the sad creatures into his own unholy soldiers. Amassing legions of the undead for millenia, the demon lord has been building an army for some unseen sinister purpose. An integral part of his dark congregation, Scarabus' maniacally malevolent Time Keepers use their Chrono-Hammers to open portals that allow him the ability to vanish and rematerialize at will. It is also rumored that the symbols that adorn his armor (later adopted by the Egyptians as the Eye of Horus) represents Scarabus' ability to gaze into men's souls.

This foul beast, who has also been called Scarabagoth in some texts, has been both worshipped and loathed. He has lurked in the shadows for centuries, surrounded in mystery, with only his closest acolotyes knowing his true purpose. One thing is certain for the rest of us- Scarabus is a dark force that may well usher in the end of days. -the Book of Atellus Chapter 12

Defense: 2
Health: 2000
Endurance: 8000

Abilities (+35)
Armored +1
Attack +2
Intimidating +3
Magic, Arcane +3
Minions +3
Monstrous Destruction +1
Monstrous Drive +5
Monstrous Durability +4
Position of Power +4
Sixth Sense +2
Smart +2
Strong +1
Vigorous +4

Weaknesses (-15)
Arrogant -3
Awkward Size -1
Bizarre Appearance -3
Greed -2
Infamous -2
Obsession -3

Attacks
Eldritch Flames Continued Effect (+10), Ranged (+0), Affinity: Fire; Roll: 2, DX: x15, End: 10
-Scarabus is able to throw green flames from his hands
Ray of Scarabus' Staff Area Effect (+10), Ranged (+0), Build-Up (-5) Weapon (-5); Roll: 2, DX: x15, End: 0
-From the jewel mounted on the top of Scarabus' staff emits deadly rays, striking down multiple foes.
Blade of Scarabus' Spear Accurate (+5), Weapon (-5); Roll:3, DX: x20, End: 0
-The head of Scarabus' staff can change into a spear for him to strike with.


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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:40 am 
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Sabersonic brought up Endurance cost for Drama Dice and Miracles. I would suggest that the Endurance cost for those would multiplied by the level multiplier of Monstrous Drive (and Durability if applicable for Health costs). This keeps the cost for Drama Dice and Miracles proportional to the base cost and would prevent abuse of Drama and Miracles. Just because you have a lot of Endurance doesn't mean drama or miracles should be easier.


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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:50 pm 
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I'm making a note here, huge success!

GLaDOS references aside, just wanted to say I appreciate the effort you've put into fleshing out this idea for other OVA players.


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 Post subject: Re: Over-the-top Idea
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 3:52 pm 
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Something I've been tinkering, and I think I got him finalized. Kamen Rider Kuuga is probably My second favorite Kamen Rider series (after Kamen Rider Black), both because of how interesting I find the villains. Kuuga in particular, has an interesting backstory for the Grongi (or the Gurongi, depending on your translation), which isn't actually shown in the series. Instead, the series takes a mysterious approach with the Grongi, giving them their own language that isn't translated but showing their murderous game. When the series nears the end, they start talking about Daguva, who despite appearing briefly in the beginning of the series to revive the Grongi, remains absent until the very end. However, the Gegeru game and the desire to strive to become the strongest monster drives the Grongi, making them different than many other toku villains, and something I found fascinating.

I've designed the Grongi as NPC fragments, since they can take all sorts of different forms and attacks. In the show, there are 48 or so out of 200 shown. They can be Secondary or Heroic level, and some have Monstrous abilities of +2, depending on how lethal or high up in the Gegeru they are.

Grongi (+1/+2)


An ancient tribe sealed for millennia, Grongi are a mysterious race of humans who had gained the power to transform into animal-like forms. These monstrous warriors took to hunting down another tribe of humans, known then as Linto, in a murderous game they called the Gegeru.
Attributes: Attack +1, Agile +1, Quick +1, Transformation +1/+2 (Armor +2, Monstrous Destruction +1/+2, Monstrous Durability +1/+2; Bizarre Appearance -2); Code of Conduct (Gegeru) -2, Hatred (Linto) -1; Health: 20/40 (100/200; 200/400)

N-Daguva-Zeba


N-Daguva-Zeba is the lord of the Grongi Tribe, called the "One who brings the Ultimate Darkness", responsible for murdering the archaeologists before resurrecting the Grongi in modern times. His Imperfect Form labeled as "Unidentified Life Form #0" by the police. Before resurfacing nine months later in his fully restored Perfect Form, Daguva manages to slaughter 152 inferior Grongi in Nagano before killing Gooma and falling off the radar after six days of being sighted. By the time he resurfaces, Daguva assumes the guise of a white-suited young man with an aura. Once Gadoru is killed, Daguva begins end game by causing an endless heavy rain before defeating Kuuga in his Amazing Mighty form while leaving massive damage in his wake. As he revealed to Baruba, he is giving Kuuga time to get stronger as a favor for giving him time to move around the country in peace. Once at Nagano, Daguva resumes the carnage before starting a systematic genocide of all humans in Japan as he tells Yusuke to meet him at Mount Kurō for a final confrontation.

As the Grongi lord, Daguva has power over his kind through fear. The Grongi were an ancient tribe of humans empowered by strange metals found in a meteorite, gaining the ability to transform into beast or plant-like forms, with deadly strength. Daguva quickly proved to be the strongest of them, easily killing thousands by himself. An ancient holy warrior known as Kuuga, who used an arcane belt that gave him similar powers to the Grongi, was able to stop the Grongi's plans for genocide, but was unable to completely defeat Daguva. Instead, Kuuga sealed the tribe in a tomb for thousands of years until it was recently uncovered by archeologists. Daguva awoke first, slaughtering the archeologists before reviving the Grongi. Amused by the modern Linto, who had evolved into the current humanity, Daguva instigated the Gegeru, a ruthless game of slaughter by the Grongi, hunting down and killing humans in different ways. The winner of the Gegeru would be offered a chance to fight Daguva himself for leadership of the Grongi.

Appearing generally laid back, Daguva greets most challenges with a smirk, steadfastly confident in his abilities. Daguva does display a number of uncouth attitudes, though, as if not fully understanding (or caring) about societal norms. He'll often suggest fire or punching as an appropriate solution for the situation, and it's difficult to tell whether he's joking or not. Underneath his easygoing facade, however, is a constantly simmering rage, and to awaken it is a dangerous thing. Battle is one of the few things that excites Daguva, and naturally he despises the weak.


Health: 50 (1250)
Endurance: 40
Defense: 4

Abilities (15)
Agile +2
Attack +3
Intimidating +3
Quick +2
Strong +1
Tough +1
Transformation +3
-Armor +2
-Monstrous Destruction +3
-Monstrous Durability +3
-Bizarre Appearance -2

Weaknesses (10)
Code of Conduct (Gegeru) -2
Impulsive -2
Infamous -1
Loner -1
Over-Confident -2
Short Tempered -2

Attacks
Pyrokinesis Area Effect (+10), Ranged (+0), Low Penetration (-5), Affinity: Fire; Roll: 4, DX: x4 (x100), End: 5
-Daguva can project waves of fire from his fingertips in either form.
Punch Stunning (+10), Ineffective 2 (-10); Roll: 4; DX: x3 (x75), End: 0
-Daguva has an affinity for an ancient form of martial arts.
Armored Claws Affinity: Transformed; Roll: 4; DX: x125, End: 0
-When transformed, Daguva can fight ferociously with his natural weapons.
Ultimate Kick Accurate 2 (+10), Effective 5 (+25), Build-Up 5 (-25), Affinity: Transformed; Roll: 6, DX: x250, End: 10
-Never seen, this ultimate attack is rumored to be able to destroy the world.


Last edited by Malancthon on Sat May 20, 2017 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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