Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request please

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Tod13
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Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request please

Post by Tod13 »

I'm looking for feedback on some ship design "templates" that I did please. These are traditional get-in-and-drive ships, without any AI or personality or anything like that. (I figure that's a good long-term upgrade for the players/characters.)

All are based on putting 1 point in Vehicle.

The main thing I have a question about is the "mute" and "unique weakness" (just a ship) that I've used in all of them. The idea behind these weaknesses is that a self-aware ship that can talk and act on its own is much more of an advantage than something that needs the complete attention of the pilot. A ship without self-awareness is usable by anyone piloting it. Some abilities/weaknesses obviously can't be taken until the ship is self-aware, by buying off the unique weakness.

Hyperdrive-capable Freight Starship
This is the main starship that the party live and travel on. It contains docking bays/ports for five ships--the four other party spaceships and an extra. Both this and the other ships are considered "normal" ships sizes.
Abilities
  • Armored +1 (starship scale)
    Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Barrier +1 (starship scale)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Life Support +3
    Unique Ability (hyperdrive) +1
Weaknesses
  • Mute (no voice, just a ship) -3
    Unique Weakness (no self-will, just a ship) -3
Attacks
Phaser (affinity: energy based)
  • Ranged +0
Photon Torpedo (affinity: energy based)
  • Area Effect +10
    Ranged +0
    Ammunition -5
Fighter Spaceship
This is a humanoid/mecha spaceship that is nothing but a fighter.
It has a phaser pistol and a space hammer that is throwable and automatically returns.
Abilities
  • Armored +1 (starship scale)
    Attack +2 (starship scale)
    Barrier +1 (starship scale)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Life Support +3
Weaknesses
  • Mute (no voice, just a ship) -3
    Unique Weakness (no self-will, just a ship) -3
Attacks
Phaser Pistol (affinity: energy based)
  • Armor Piercing +5
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Space Hammer (affinity: physical)
  • Armor Piercing +5
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Smuggler Spaceship
This is the smuggler local system ship, with evasion and invisibility. It has some moderate cargo capability.
Abilities
  • Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Barrier +1 (starship scale)
    Evasive +1
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Invisiblity +1
    Life Support +3
Weaknesses
  • Mute (no voice, just a ship) -3
    Unique Weakness (no self-will, just a ship) -3
Attacks
Laser (affinity: energy based)
  • Multiple Targets +10
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Linear Accelerator (affinity: physical)
  • Ranged +0
Exploration Spaceship
This is an exploratory local system ship with better sensors and a stun weapon.
Abilities
  • Armored +1 (starship scale)
    Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Healer +1 (starship repair)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Heightened Sense (better longer range sensors) +1
    Life Support +3
Weaknesses
  • Mute (no voice, just a ship) -3
    Unique Weakness (no self-will, just a ship) -3
Attacks
Linear Accelerator (affinity: physical)
  • Ranged +0
Directed EMP (affinity: energy)
  • Barrier Buster +5
    Stunning +10
    Ranged +0
    Cancel -10 (does not work on simpler ships and spacesuits or non-electronics)
    Unwieldy -5
Transforming Spaceship
This is the transforming fighter spaceship. It has a single overwelming attack that leaves is horrendously vulnerable afterwards.
Abilities
  • Armored +1 (starship scale)
    Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Barrier +1 (starship scale)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Life Support +3
    Transformation +1
Weaknesses
  • Mute (no voice, just a ship) -3
    Unique Weakness (no self-will, just a ship) -3
Attacks
Laser (affinity: energy based)
  • Multiple Targets +10
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Linear Accelerator (affinity: physical)
  • Ranged +0
Transformation
Abilities
  • Attack +4 (starship scale)
Weaknesses
  • Vulnerability -2
Attacks
Super Mega Missile Overload Attack
  • Armor Piercing +5
    Barrier Buster +5
    Overwelming +15
    Redirectable +5
    Multiple Targets +10
    Ranged +0
    Ammunition -15
    Open to Attack -25
Sabersonic
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Re: Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request pleas

Post by Sabersonic »

From what I can offer in opinion form about Mute and Unique Weaknesses to your ship templates is simply this: If a ship has such an AI, and by that I mean a personality worthy of it being a character, but unable to truly interact with the onboard crew then those Weaknesses will apply.

If a ship has no such AI, then it's not really a weakness since the ship is less of a Companion and more of the Vehicle/Mecha and thus would not be applicable. Though I think a simpler approach would be this: If it's detrimental as a character, would it be detrimental as a ship?

I'm sure someone more well versed with the design mechanics would offer a better answer, I'm just simply putting out a statement and opinion.
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Tod13
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Posts: 12
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Re: Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request pleas

Post by Tod13 »

Sabersonic wrote:If a ship has no such AI, then it's not really a weakness since the ship is less of a Companion and more of the Vehicle/Mecha and thus would not be applicable. Though I think a simpler approach would be this: If it's detrimental as a character, would it be detrimental as a ship?
Thanks! That helps a lot. If it's an AI (which these aren't), it uses Companion. If it's a plain-old-vehicle, then it uses "Vehicle/Mecha". And in the latter case, the Mute and "just a ship" doesn't make any sense.

So, if I wanted to make ships that could become Companions, I'd start with Companion (1x points) instead of Vehicle (2x points), which is where the advantage/disadvantage comes from.

It makes sense now. I felt there was something wrong with what I was doing, I just couldn't figure it out. Trying to wrap my brain around all the options was keeping me from seeing it. I'll try new write ups later today/tonight.
Sabersonic
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Re: Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request pleas

Post by Sabersonic »

It's alright, so long as you got a clear idea of how to approach the problem.

Still, how to indicate that a companion is actually a vehicle with internal space for passengers is up for debate :shock:
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Though he may have his flaws and faults, he was a husband and a father without equal. May the Angels welcome and accept him with open arms.

Rest in Peace, Dad
Tod13
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Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:51 pm

Re: Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request pleas

Post by Tod13 »

Sabersonic wrote:It's alright, so long as you got a clear idea of how to approach the problem.

Still, how to indicate that a companion is actually a vehicle with internal space for passengers is up for debate :shock:
I'd just declare it in the narrative. For a companion vehicle that carries multiple people, maybe also use the Awkward Size weakness if it is that big, since a "normal" companion is going to fit in buildings and stuff, while a vehicle won't. Kind of like the robot companion from the demo characters.

How does this look like for actual vehicles. Everything of course costs more. I may have to think about more/better weaknesses to use. Any ideas there? Some of the ones that come to mind are making them weak to certain affinities or making the weapons not target smaller scales...

Hyperdrive-capable Freight Starship (cost 3 points, x2 = 6 spent)
This is the main starship that the party live and travel on. It contains docking bays/ports for five ships--the four other party spaceships and an extra. Both this and the other ships are considered "normal" ships sizes.
Abilities
  • Armored +1 (starship scale)
    Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Barrier +1 (starship scale)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Life Support +3
    Unique Ability (hyperdrive) +1
Weaknesses
  • Trigger (hyperdrive only works outside a gravity well) -1
    Unique Weakness (clumsy inside atmosphere) -1
Attacks
Phaser (affinity: energy based)
  • Ranged +0
Photon Torpedo (affinity: energy based)
  • Area Effect +10
    Ranged +0
    Ammunition -5
Fighter Spaceship (cost 3 points, x2 = 6 spent)
This is a humanoid/mecha spaceship that is nothing but a fighter.
It has a phaser pistol and a space hammer that is throwable and automatically returns.
Abilities
  • Armored +1 (starship scale)
    Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Barrier +1 (starship scale)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Life Support +3
Weaknesses
  • Unique Weakness (clumsy inside atmosphere) -1
Attacks
Phaser Pistol (affinity: energy based)
  • Armor Piercing +5
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Space Hammer (affinity: physical)
  • Armor Piercing +5
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Smuggler Spaceship (cost 3 points, x2 = 6 spent)
This is the smuggler local system ship, with evasion and invisibility. It has some moderate cargo capability.
Abilities
  • Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Invisiblity +1
    Life Support +3
Weaknesses
  • none
Attacks
Laser (affinity: energy based)
  • Multiple Targets +10
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Linear Accelerator (affinity: physical)
  • Ranged +0
Exploration Spaceship (cost 3 points, x2 = 6 spent)
This is an exploratory local system ship with better sensors and a stun weapon.
Abilities
  • Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Healer +1 (starship repair)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Heightened Sense (better longer range sensors) +1
    Life Support +3
Weaknesses
  • Unique Weakness (clumsy inside atmosphere) -1
Attacks
Linear Accelerator (affinity: physical)
  • Ranged +0
Directed EMP (affinity: energy)
  • Barrier Buster +5
    Stunning +10
    Ranged +0
    Cancel -10 (does not work on simpler ships and spacesuits or non-electronics)
    Unwieldy -5
Transforming Spaceship (cost 4 points, x2 = 8 spent)
This is the transforming fighter spaceship. It has a single overwhelming attack that leaves it horrendously vulnerable afterwards.
Abilities
  • Armored +1 (starship scale)
    Attack +1 (starship scale)
    Barrier +1 (starship scale)
    Flight +1 (starship scale)
    Life Support +3
    Transformation +1
Weaknesses
  • none
Attacks
Laser (affinity: energy based)
  • Multiple Targets +10
    Ranged +0
    Weapon -5
Linear Accelerator (affinity: physical)
  • Ranged +0
Transformation
Abilities
  • Attack +4 (starship scale)
Weaknesses
  • Vulnerability -2
Attacks
Super Mega Missile Overload Attack
  • Armor Piercing +5
    Barrier Buster +5
    Overwhelming +15
    Redirectable +5
    Multiple Targets +10
    Ranged +0
    Ammunition -15
    Open to Attack -25
Tod13
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Posts: 12
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Re: Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request pleas

Post by Tod13 »

Sabersonic wrote:Still, how to indicate that a companion is actually a vehicle with internal space for passengers is up for debate :shock:
I'm reading your old threads here. I did not realize they were vehicle/gear threads. :mrgreen:

I see where this question came from now. I'm actually more interested in keeping the system simpler and less detailed, which why I said I'd "narrative" the solution. I'm looking at signature-vehicles that each character has as part of an ongoing sci-fi campaign. (Which is kind of why the vehicles tend to echo character types.) I want each character to have a vehicle to avoid the whole "what does the thief do during the space battle" question.

I'm tempted to try running it as 0-5 points over for your character and 3-5 points for a ship. My plan is to use the old Classic Traveller adventure modules for the campaign.

If I were doing a game where seating/cargo was important (a tactical game where number of troops mattered or a trading game where amount of cargo carried was significant), I'd probably just make it as a new Ability and declare 1pt in Passenger Seating allows for up to N passengers, 1pt in Passenger Accommodations grants X lodgings for passengers, or something similar.

Sorry, I should have explained all this the first time.
Sabersonic
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Re: Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request pleas

Post by Sabersonic »

I understand. Typically the carrying capacity (and in my previous cases, vehicle loadout) doesn't have that big of an impact of in the typical campaign that feature such spacecrafts.

However, in my initial Mobile Suit Gundam Saga: Chain-Linked Destinies Design Critique foray into capital ship design under OVA2e standards, I found that the initial Vehicle Costs were just a bit too low compared to mobile suits. Granted, said mobile suits were designed to be customizable, but still it seemed a bit off if one is able to gain spaceships more easily than mobile suits. Thus I looked for ways to increase the cost of said spacecraft so that they were at least comparatively more expensive for any one PC to have as their own compared to mobile suits and, well, it kinda snow-balled from there.... :oops:
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Though he may have his flaws and faults, he was a husband and a father without equal. May the Angels welcome and accept him with open arms.

Rest in Peace, Dad
Clay
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Re: Building Spaceship with Vehicle - feedback request pleas

Post by Clay »

As a general rule, if you’re trying to keep things simple, skip on Abilities or Weaknesses that apply to every similar writeup in your game.

Including Mute as a Weakness for a ship only makes sense if the vast majority of vehicles have onboard AI. If AI is the exception, then that should be an Ability instead.

Likewise, if every single vehicle in your game has Life Support +3, you can arguably skip on that and make NOT having Life Support a Weakness. Something like: -1 Life support works but is uncomfortable, -2 Life support will only work for a very limited time, -3 Life support does not work and you die in other environments in short order.

Don’t get me wrong, there’s nothing wrong with using Life Support as written in the book, I just wanted to encourage you to bend the rules if that makes the game easier/more fun for you.

Nice writeups, though! Thanks for sharing.
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