Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

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The Reddest Mage
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Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

Post by The Reddest Mage »

So, if I understand correctly, regardless of what Abilities and/or Weaknesses they may have, an Extra's Threat Value is always a flat 1, is that right?

Well, just for fun while between sessions me and one of my players decided to play out the scene of Miho trying to escape the Malicron Corporation. I believe at 20 Miho has the highest Threat Value of all the sample characters, so we thought having her up against six Spider Tank Extras (supposedly a Threat Value of 1 each because they're Extras) would be easy for her.

When we took into account though the +5 bonus to their Armored Ability for having the Scaled Advantage due to being huge mecha, even with the 7 Damage Multiplier Miho has for her Hand-to-Hand attack, or her Armor Piercing Sniper Rifle attack, she still had trouble even denting them. In the end, she was defeated in just two rounds.

So we learned not to underestimate Spider Tanks even if they're just Extras.
Chris Brady
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Re: Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

Post by Chris Brady »

The Reddest Mage wrote:So we learned not to underestimate Spider Tanks even if they're just Extras.
First off, here's the issue: You used Scale as if it was bound to size, it does not, it is not, it should not all the time. There are plenty of Anime old and new out there where Giant Mechs or vehicles do not get their 'Scale' Advantage, Samurai 7 of 2004, and Hakka Ryoran Samurai Girls (if you ignore all the jiggling, juggling and bouncing boobage and low rent porn story) first episode (where the girls were jumping off aircraft and cutting them down) come to mind.

Secondly, because they're extras and Miho may be designed to fight these things as she's meant to be a military weapons platform, the Scale Advantage they have for their weapons or armour need not apply.
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The Reddest Mage
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Re: Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

Post by The Reddest Mage »

I know that Scale Advantages will vary depending on the tone of the game. We were going for a more serious and dramatic tone rather than a more cinematic or comical one. Personally, I think a spider tank would warrant a Scale Advantage towards its offensive power and durability against any of the Sample NPCs, including Miho - it's a gigantic heavily armored tank after all, and as her background has her as being critically wounded when escaping from Malicron, I guess whatever she was up against had to be really tough to wound her so badly. But that's just me. Anyway, my point is that the whole Extras only being worth 1 Threat Value can be misleading if a Scale Advantage is used, as even an Extra with just a +1 or +2 in its combat-related Abilities can go from being a pushover to being a really tough nut to crack thanks to that +5 Scale Advantage bonus to Armor unless you go by the "one successful hit automatically defeats Extras" option.
R-90-2
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Re: Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

Post by R-90-2 »

So... "Spider Tanks are really tough if you massively boost their stats".

This was a surprise how?

Okay, to walk it back a bit, a Spider Tank using the optional Scale Advantage is no longer threat level 1, because you are making huge alterations to the stats that directly affect how much threat they are to the PCs.

As for what caught Miho on the way out- Consider that Miho may not have been the first combat machine to come out of the process that led to her creation.
Atmo
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Re: Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

Post by Atmo »

"I made the enemies too strong and the PC lost! They are very very dangerous, I tell you."

That's what I got from your "experience." It's like giving Indiana Jones a Giant Cyber Gorilla From Hell to fight against.
Clay
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Re: Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

Post by Clay »

Keep in mind not all the NPC Fragments are necessarily Extras. Extras are supposed to have +1 or 2 in Abilities at best. Once they have as many bonuses as listed for Spider Tank in the book, or worse, even more bonuses from “Scale”, they should at least be Secondary NPCs. If you REALLY want to keep them with Extra-like Health/Endurance totals and lots of Abilities, calculate their TV as normal and subtract 6, minimum of 1. (The subtraction here covers their reduced Health and Endurance. It’s the same for Secondary NPCs)

Short answer, if an enemy is using Scale to its advantage, it probably is not an extra anymore, and you should include scale in its TV calculation.
The Reddest Mage
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Re: Spider Tanks are Pretty Tough Even as Extras

Post by The Reddest Mage »

I see. I understand now, thanks for the advice.
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